SVG Working Group Teleconference -- 04 Feb 2010

<trackbot> Date: 04 February 2010

is this the correct suite? http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Test/20061213/htmlObjectHarness/full-color-prof-01-f.html

<ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/

<ChrisL> Scribe: Patrick

<ChrisL> Scribenick: pdengler

ed: Proposed agenda items

http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/

ed: #1 Test suites. These have been updated

pdengler: Should we push out test suites for XHTML

shepazu: Is Microsoft thinking about supporting XHTML mime type and extension?

chris: pdengler : really?

<ChrisL> :)

ed: Is is possible to move the harness to XHTML

<ChrisL> yes, no problem

ChrisL: We can serve XHTML with no problem

ed: Who can we get to make another harness....

anthony: Is that the only thing left?

ed: No. XHTML should be trivial.
... Many references images were missing or incorrect. Have you done updates on those?

anthony: No, haven't done that

shepazu: Is it different betwen XHML and HTML?

ChrisL: Shouldn't be

<scribe> ACTION: anthony Create XHTML harness for test suites [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2721 - Create XHTML harness for test suites [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-02-11].

<scribe> ACTION: anthony Fix up references images and missing images on test suites [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2722 - Fix up references images and missing images on test suites [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-02-11].

ed: Issue : Changes in spec vs. changes in errata

Changes in spec vs. changes in errata

ed: Was reading the process document regarding how to proceed with eratta. It does seem we need to keep them up to date as well as get reviews.

ChrisL: Groups must collected feedback and 'should' do so in timely manner.
... One method is to mark proposed eratta and approved errata but no one (?) has ever done it
... Other way is to get review done by publishing the whole entire document; changes need to be marked for reviewers

pdengler: Is the appending up to date?

ed: Should be. And there should be links to the SVC change logs

<ChrisL> s/SVC.CVS/

shepazu: I don't know if it's useful to maintain the eratta seperately except as a transtional thing

ChrisL: We were using that process but then we started moving them directly into the spec.

shepazu: Before move on can we cover anthony's gradient issue

Proposed working for gradient rendering

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0005.html

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0006.html

anthony: Read this and kind of agree with this. If you read the parts about which order things are applied.

shepazu: What is the gradient normal

CL: perpendicular (90 degrees)
... it's 90 degrees in it's own coordinate system, but if you skew it should no longer be normal

anthony: Will make this clearer

shepazu: make sense to align for illustrator

ed: Haven't heard about this issue, but we will fix it

ChrisL: All of the editors do it the same way, and some of the viewers do it the same, some do it different

<ed> s/haven't heard about this issue/haven't seen any bugreports on this issue/

ChrisL: Will revise wording on gradients next week

ed: topic: read-only vs. non read-only IDLs

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0008.html (point #3a)

pdengler: Seem to be inconsitencies here.

ed: Would have been good to have Cameron here.
... Not suppose to be able write to animated values, which is what the IDL is trying to express.
... if you find other places, send a pointer and we will look at those
... mutable/immutable would be clearer but not sure if IDL allows this to be expressed

pdengler: We will investigate this on our side and if we find anything still as an issue, we will get back

shepazu: keep in mind WebIDL for 2.0 will help remove these inconsistencies

Line caps drawing on zero length lines

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0010.html

pdengler: If we make the adjustment to the spec that Erik suggested "update F.5 section to also say that 'butt' linecaps means nothing is drawn"

<scribe> ACTION: pdengler update sectoin on line caps (F.5) do read that reflect nothing is drawn for 'butt' linecaps [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2723 - Update sectoin on line caps (F.5) do read that reflect nothing is drawn for 'butt' linecaps [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-02-11].

ed: topic: CSS spec changes

shepazu: the CSS working group has the style spec for the 'style' attribute; how to parse unit-less values
... Did you (ChrisL) send the response

<ChrisL> ACTION-2718?

<trackbot> ACTION-2718 -- Chris Lilley to write wording about unitless property values for CSS Styling Attributes Level 1 spec -- due 2010-02-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2718

shepazu: Things like stroke-width, if you use a unit, that's defined in the coordinate space (root), it could have unpredictable events.

<ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/filters.html#EnableBackgroundProperty

shepazu: Comments are due on the 6th (or 8th)

<ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/painting.html#FillOpacityProperty

ChrisL: I will get them in

<ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/propidx.html

ChrisL: Discussion with CSS group wasn't as fruitful this time as they had other items on their agena
... Didn't get to any stuff that applies to SVG. These are on wednesday

pdengler: Is there a list of SVG specifics that we want to discuss with CSS?

shepazu: We should put this on a wiki page for CSS collaborations. This is the stuff the task for should be covering

<anthony> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/FX-Taskforce

shepazu: There are folks in css trying to push forward items like animation, but they are not really actively engaged
... There are folks on the FX working group that will help push this forward; we will be isolate folks who specialize in graphics and move forward more quickly

pdengler: Isn't tranisitions moving along

ChrisL: It is.

shepazu: We can have some say on how they apply to SVG as this is not yet articulated

ed: I should publish some examples I made for SVG Open with CSS transitions and SVG

'symbol' and 'display: none' clarification

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0011.html

ed: Display should be respected and the spec is clear, except for x,y; firefox and webkit respect them anyway

ChrisL: The idea was to define a symbol indepdenent of how it was going to use; where you have no edit control (i.e. symbol library)

shepazu: neither symbol nor marker necessarily makes sense in that context

ChrisL: Original thiking was a single SVG file with symbols in them
... Fragment was made mandatory, but shouldn't have had to

<ChrisL> ISSUE: non mandatory fragments on use

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-2303 - Non mandatory fragments on use ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2303/edit .

shepazu: suppose you had a file full of symbols and you wanted to reference just one of them, you would still have to download the whole file
... at what point does it make sense to split them up? these could be good recommendations for external references.

pdengler: Isn't SVG fonts just another symbol/marker

ChrisL: Yes, SVG fonts is just another use case of symbol/marker

ed: It does give it some new behavior for textual representation

shepazu: Now looking out, how can we cut things down to simplify implementations

ChrisL: needs analysis as sometimes you find specifics that are required

shepazu: Let's look at the differences between nested SVG, symbol and marker, e.g. and we might find the Symbol and marker are just short hands for nested SVG

ChrisL: If we are talking about refactoring, the number of times you use markers is low, and if you want markers, you should have a polymarker elements for example

<ChrisL> I updated ISSUE-2303 to add some details, and assigned it to SVG Core 2.0

<ChrisL> (discussion on markers and symbols and interactivity)

Further error processing clarifications in XHTML for example

<ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/ua-tests/bold-italic-strikethrough-element-inherit.xhtml

ed: Think it's more of XHTML/HTML

ChrisL: Not necessariy; could be style issue.

<ChrisL> <b> is the same as <span style="font-weight: bold"> so should inherit the same way

ChrisL: This scenario, really being a style issue should behave in this manner (inherit appropriately)
... Think about strike through on <textPath>. you have to calculate geometries if you want a smooth strike-through

ed: Not sure what happens if you do vertical text

ChrisL: Underdefined for non-horizontal text

shepazu: does there exist another convention for strike through for vertical text? Find out if they use strike through

ChrisL: Japanesese has some examples here

SVGElementInstance mixed support

ed: not deprecated. it needs to be correctly implemented (as has been done in opera and webkit). I you have test cases that shows inconsistencies, that would be a good thing to contribute

shepazu: (still on the older topic) Japanese has double-strike through

ed: only way to get to these is through correspondingElement to get the actual elements referenced

<scribe> ACTION: pdengler Update spec on Minor Correction to DOM language http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#RelationshipWithDOM2Events [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2724 - Update spec on Minor Correction to DOM language http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#RelationshipWithDOM2Events [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-02-11].

ed: topic SVGSVGElement 'width' and 'height'

<shepazu> ACTION-4?

<trackbot> ACTION-4 does not exist

anthony: save SVGSVGElement 'width' and 'height' for next telcon

<shepazu> ACTION-2724?

<trackbot> ACTION-2724 -- Patrick Dengler to update spec on Minor Correction to DOM language http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#RelationshipWithDOM2Events -- due 2010-02-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2724

- DRAFT -

SVG Working Group Teleconference

04 Feb 2010

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