HTML Weekly Teleconference

28 Jan 2010


See also: IRC log




<kliehm> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Date: 28 January 2010

<mjs> I'l be dialed in shortly, havng minor phone difficulties

<paulc> [Microsoft] has paulc

<paulc> does someone want to volunteer to scribe?

<mjs> Zakim: pick a scribe

<scribe> scribenick: adrianba

ACTION items due by Thu Jan 28


<trackbot> ACTION-29 -- Philippe Le H├ęgaret to follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring -- due 2010-01-28 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/29

mjs: plh on vacation so not going to give an update

paulc: PSIG prepared FAQ for March AC meeting
... believe W3C plans to do survey of membership before meeting mar 22/23
... discuss results then

mjs: when plh is back can fill in details

<MikeSmith> MikeSmith concurs with Paul's summary


<trackbot> ACTION-138 -- Steve Faulkner to produce an ARIA matrix based on Henri's work -- due 2010-01-14 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/138

<paulc> Philippe is actively working on ACTION-29

<paulc> PSIG is discussing this actively.

janina: could we leave this with the TF

mjs: need deadline and responsible party to report back at deadline

<paulc> Could this one be subsumed by ACTION-170?

<masinter> action-170?

<trackbot> ACTION-170 -- Michael(tm) Smith to update A11Y timeline for tracker related issues -- due 2010-01-28 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/170

janina: could be added to 170, yes

<masinter> action-170 says it is Michael(tm) Smith, not Janina

<masinter> got it

paulc: this is just a zakim issue - action states it belongs to janina

mjs: let's table discussion for now until 170 complete

<paulc> We0 could consider making ACTION-138 part of ACTION-17


<trackbot> ACTION-168 -- Michael(tm) Smith to prepare H:TML for First Public Working Draft -- due 2010-01-28 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/168

mjs: this is the document discussed with TAG who are interested in having published
... should change status to be non-normative

<paulc> I think MikeSmith is muted

mjs: because of prior discussions

mikesmith: ready to go
... just need to know what to do next

mjs: post on mailing list and say that
... have document to nominate as FPWD

<MikeSmith> http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup/

mjs: chairs will issue cfc when discussion settles down

paulc: is it so close to publication we could consider publishing with next round of heartbeat docs

mikesmith: up to you - don't want this to hold up other docs

<masinter> the opinions about "heartbeat" documents are individual, not linked

mikesmith: if no objections, would be great to publish alongside

<paulc> Thanks for the explanation.

mjs: will be discussing individual so should consider being in same set

mikesmith: okay, will announce today with intention to publish alongside other docs


<trackbot> ACTION-170 -- Michael(tm) Smith to update A11Y timeline for tracker related issues -- due 2010-01-28 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/170

<paulc> When Mike does the announcement one of the chairs will close ACTION-168

mjs: can we have a status update?

janina: short update is we believe will be finished by end of june
... have looked at various 90+ bugs on html5 with kw a11y
... looked at grouping into topics that could have change proposals
... such as alt summary title display
... tentatively approved by tf as meaningful way to proceed
... might need sub-teams
... haven't yet got specific about timelines
... some of issues such as canvas - expect report at end of feb
... video like that
... concerned that not further along
... these both need engineering
... have 10 topic areas

<Laura> Bugs Proposed to be Accepted by the A11y TF

<Laura> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Bugs/accepted

<Laura> Bugs Proposed to be Rejected by the A11y TF

<Laura> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Bugs/rejected

janina: might not need to take up all of them
... wai might pick up some
... didn't get as far with scoping as hoped but general agreement on these
... 2 per month takes us to june
... working on drafting consensus process - approved today
... this pushed summary back one week
... looking at list of 10, actively working on half already

<Laura> proposed consensus document: http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/html/consensus-procedures.html

mjs: sounds good, useful update
... when will be a good time to give update on timeline?

janina: end of each month?

mjs: sooner if possible, on these 10 areas some already have been escalated to issues
... some may have not yet so if there is at least one bug in each category finding time to decide if you want to escalate would be good

<Laura> Accessibility Change Proposal Status: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status

mjs: to get these into html wg tracker

janina: each of the 10 do have bugs
... we going through the areas and identifying the list of bugs
... we can do that

<paulc> Could you also give us at least the two first areas to come back to the WG?

michael: might be able to have first draft by next week but these things take longer so 2 weeks is better

mjs: 2 weeks sounds good


<trackbot> ACTION-172 -- Larry Masinter to insure Change Proposal for ISSUE-4 (versioning) also covers ISSUE-84 (legacy doctype) -- due 2010-02-10 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/172

<Laura> Proposal on categories for bugs http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0246.html

mjs: larry requested extension which was granted - skipping over this

<masinter> I sent some additional comments which we could discuss on the list

Update on new drafts

mjs: we'd like to publish new round of WD
... only remaining blocker is ian making revisions to microdata draft
... to be more standalone
... and address those objections from first call about being separate from html5
... held up by technical issues
... will get status update later today - maybe additional week
... that is our only blocker
... want this done asap

masinter: made comments about rdfa that manu might not have done yet

mjs: thinks manu said he has done this

masinter: not convinced microdata is in scope - not sure how that has been addressed

mjs: fine to mention that again at time of cfc if you believe it hasn't been fully addressed

masinter: will send to the list about this

Call for Proposals that close by Thu Jan 28


<trackbot> ISSUE-81 -- Offline Web Applications section should use the term "representation" instead of "resource" -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/81

mjs: roy won't have time to start soon
... week of extra time in case anyone else wanted to pick this up
... seems like no one has volunteered
... so we're going to close without prejudice
... doesn't mean nothing can ever happen but someone would need to do change proposal work to reopen for consideration
... chairs tried to find volunteer but we don't have anyone yet

masinter: TAG discussion on what the wording might be - mail on this in the last week
... if i bring it up in tag this morning could we wait until tomorrow

mjs: sure
... let's do that - extra day for tag consideration otherwise closed tomorrow

New Calls for Proposals this Week

mjs: shelley accepted to do these by mar 1

<mjs> s/mar 1 / mar 31/

mjs: we do have 1 volunteer for each but if someone else wants to as well that would be fine


<trackbot> ISSUE-93 -- Delete Details Element -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/93


<trackbot> ISSUE-94 -- Split Web Application Core and UA specific elements into separate spec -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/94


<trackbot> ISSUE-96 -- Remove/Discard the Progress Element -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/96


<trackbot> ISSUE-97 -- Remove/Discard the Meter Element -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/97

mjs: if anyone cares about these and wants to pursue them and help shelley you can do so
... questons?

Issues To Move Forward On

mjs: chairs identified 3 issues to move on and hopefully resolve quickly


<trackbot> ISSUE-83 -- Use of the dt and dd elements in figure and details content models -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/83

mjs: multiple change proposals and discussion
... almost come to consensus agreement
... minor sticking point about name
... final chance to remove objections about summary or dsummary
... will revise change proposal and let other chairs decide if necessary
... they will probably make a cfc or maybe a poll
... should have this settled in a week or two


<trackbot> ISSUE-66 -- image analysis heuristics -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/66

mjs: had a change proposal to remove the para referencing user agents doing image analysis for images lacking alt
... some discussion on this - could be removed, maybe add statement allowing UA to do this and refer to UA a11y guidelines
... hoping we can reach consensus on this
... if not we'll ask for counter proposals


<trackbot> ISSUE-27 -- @rel value ownership, registry consideration -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/27

mjs: change proposal to use registry for rel
... believe objections have been addressed
... if there isn't anything else soon then expect to just cfc on this or ask editor to just make changes
... these are 3 to focus on now, as these are closed out will move on others
... questions or comments?

New Issues This Week


<trackbot> ISSUE-99 -- meta/@scheme missing -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/99

mjs: julian raised this based on bugzilla pending bug

<Laura> HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference Minutes:

<Laura> http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-html-a11y-minutes.html

julian: this is one of many issues that could be opened about things that have been removed from html4
... related to other issue about media type registration
... which was moved to other product
... general issue is that spec changes media registration to point to html5 and potentially makes existing conforming documents non-conforming
... this might not be the most important but we have others
... at some point we'll need to decide what to do here

mjs: we should discuss on mailing list

task force reports

mjs: we have already heard from a11y task force

<krisk> Group met as planned on 1/26

krisk: update on testing tf

<krisk> Meeting notes -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2010Jan/0011.html

krisk: met as planned on 1/26
... 4 new action items

<krisk> #1 Complete submission for window security tests (Sec 5.3.1) http://www.w3.org/html/wg/test/track/actions/5

<krisk> #2 Create Initial/Example set ref test for HTML5 Test Suite http://www.w3.org/html/wg/test/track/actions/6

<krisk> #3 Gather content sniffing parser tests http://www.w3.org/html/wg/test/track/actions/7

krisk: if someone wants to volunteer for submitting reference tests that would be good

<krisk> Create initial set of tests (css, dom functionality) that are needed for running test cases http://www.w3.org/html/wg/test/track/actions/8

krisk: coming back in 2 weeks with update

<masinter> note that content sniffing IETF draft was updated independently

mjs: meeting adjourned

<Laura> bye

<cardona507> goodbye

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2010/01/28 17:45:59 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

FAILED: s/mar 1 / mar 31/
Found ScribeNick: adrianba
Inferring Scribes: adrianba

WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: AT Cooper Cynthia_Shelly Dashiva Eliot_Graff IPcaller Janina Laura MichaelC Microsoft Mike MikeSmith Radhika_Roy Sam Scott aaaa aabb aacc aadd aaee adrianba aroben aroben_ cardona507 cyns franko html-wg jmann joined julian kliehm krisk masinter matt michael mjs paulc rubys sbublava scribenick trackbot tross
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010JanMar/0008.html

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 28 Jan 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-html-wg-minutes.html
People with action items: 

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]