SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 20 April 2010

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-04-20
Seen
Alexandre Passant, Andy Seaborne, Axel Polleres, Birte Glimm, Chimezie Ogbuji, David Charboneau, Gregory Williams, Ivan Herman, Lee Feigenbaum, Matthew Perry, Olivier Corby, Paul Gearon, Souripriya Das, Steve Harris
Chair
Axel Polleres
Scribe
Chimezie Ogbuji
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-13 link
  2. change Condition 1 as suggested in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0055.html link
Topics
  1. comments

  2. entailment conditions rewordings

  3. ISSUE-49

  4. test suite

    next time discuss Fed queries and publication schedule, all editors, let us know how far you are wrt. publication of next round!

13:57:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/20-sparql-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/20-sparql-irc

13:57:40 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

13:57:42 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277

13:57:42 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

13:57:43 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:57:43 <trackbot> Date: 20 April 2010
13:57:53 <LeeF> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-04-20
13:58:09 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

13:58:16 <Zakim> + +03539149aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +03539149aaaa

13:58:56 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aaaa is me

Axel Polleres: Zakim, aaaa is me

13:58:56 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AxelPolleres; got it

13:59:01 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aabb

13:59:02 <kasei> heh

Gregory Williams: heh

13:59:06 <Zakim> + +0186528aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0186528aacc

13:59:07 <kasei> Zakim, aabb is me

Gregory Williams: Zakim, aabb is me

13:59:08 <Zakim> +kasei; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei; got it

13:59:21 <bglimm> Zakim, +0186528aacc is me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, +0186528aacc is me

13:59:21 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm; got it

13:59:31 <Zakim> +??P14

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14

13:59:34 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum

Zakim IRC Bot: +Lee_Feigenbaum

13:59:35 <bglimm> Zakim, why don't you recognize me any more?

Birte Glimm: Zakim, why don't you recognize me any more?

13:59:35 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, bglimm.

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, bglimm.

13:59:39 <AndyS1> zakim, ??P14 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P14 is me

13:59:39 <Zakim> +AndyS1; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS1; got it

13:59:51 <LeeF> zakim, mute me please

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, mute me please

13:59:51 <Zakim> Lee_Feigenbaum should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Lee_Feigenbaum should now be muted

13:59:59 <Zakim> + +49.238.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.238.aadd

14:00:06 <Zakim> + +0208439aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0208439aaee

14:00:11 <LeeF> Chair: AxelPolleres
14:00:16 <Zakim> - +0208439aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: - +0208439aaee

14:00:28 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

14:00:28 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

14:00:28 <OlivierCorby> Zakim, aadd is me

Olivier Corby: Zakim, aadd is me

14:00:29 <AxelPolleres> trackbot, start meeting

Axel Polleres: trackbot, start meeting

14:00:30 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +OlivierCorby; got it

14:00:30 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

14:00:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:00:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277

14:00:33 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now

14:00:34 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:00:34 <trackbot> Date: 20 April 2010
14:00:35 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

14:00:35 <Zakim> sorry, bglimm, I don't know what conference this is

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bglimm, I don't know what conference this is

14:00:41 <LeeF> zakim, this is SPARQl

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this is SPARQl

14:00:41 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM

14:00:45 <LeeF> zakim, mute bglimm

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, mute bglimm

14:00:45 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted

14:00:46 <bglimm> Zakim, this is SPARQL

Birte Glimm: Zakim, this is SPARQL

14:00:47 <Zakim> bglimm, this was already SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm, this was already SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM

14:00:49 <Zakim> ok, bglimm; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, bglimm; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM

14:00:56 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

14:00:56 <Zakim> bglimm was already muted, bglimm

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm was already muted, bglimm

14:01:10 <chimezie> Zakim, what is the passcode?

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, what is the passcode?

14:01:10 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), chimezie

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), chimezie

14:01:10 <AxelPolleres> chime, will you be able to scribe?

Axel Polleres: chime, will you be able to scribe?

14:01:13 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aagg

14:01:13 <chimezie> yes

Chimezie Ogbuji: yes

14:01:30 <Souri> zakim, aagg is Souri

Souripriya Das: zakim, aagg is Souri

14:01:30 <Zakim> +Souri; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri; got it

14:01:43 <Zakim> +Chimezie_Ogbuji

Zakim IRC Bot: +Chimezie_Ogbuji

14:01:45 <SteveH> Zakim, who's on the phone

Steve Harris: Zakim, who's on the phone

14:01:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's on the phone', SteveH

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who's on the phone', SteveH

14:01:50 <SteveH> Zakim, who's on the phone?

Steve Harris: Zakim, who's on the phone?

14:01:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see AxelPolleres, kasei, bglimm (muted), AndyS1, Lee_Feigenbaum (muted), OlivierCorby, Ivan, +0208439aaff, Souri, Chimezie_Ogbuji

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AxelPolleres, kasei, bglimm (muted), AndyS1, Lee_Feigenbaum (muted), OlivierCorby, Ivan, +0208439aaff, Souri, Chimezie_Ogbuji

14:02:08 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-04-20

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-04-20

14:02:12 <SteveH> Zakim, aaff is [Garlik]

Steve Harris: Zakim, aaff is [Garlik]

14:02:12 <Zakim> +[Garlik]; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +[Garlik]; got it

14:02:13 <LeeF> zakim, who's speaking?

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's speaking?

14:02:15 <AndyS1> zakim, AndyS1 is AndyS

Andy Seaborne: zakim, AndyS1 is AndyS

14:02:15 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

14:02:25 <SteveH> loud typing

Steve Harris: loud typing

14:02:29 <Zakim> LeeF, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 10 (26%), AndyS1 (53%)

Zakim IRC Bot: LeeF, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 10 (26%), AndyS1 (53%)

14:02:29 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Chimezie Ogbuji

(Scribe set to Chimezie Ogbuji)

14:02:52 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-13

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-13

14:02:52 <Zakim> +??P25

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P25

14:03:13 <MattPerry> zakim, ??P25 is me

Matthew Perry: zakim, ??P25 is me

14:03:13 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry; got it

14:03:15 <SteveH> Zakim, [Garlik] is temporarily SteveH

Steve Harris: Zakim, [Garlik] is temporarily SteveH

14:03:17 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it

14:03:20 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-13

PROPOSED: approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-13

14:03:33 <LeeF> minutes look good to me

Lee Feigenbaum: minutes look good to me

14:03:48 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-13

RESOLVED: approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-13

14:04:15 <AxelPolleres> Next meeting: 2010-04-27 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST

Axel Polleres: Next meeting: 2010-04-27 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST

14:04:26 <LeeF> my regrets for next week

Lee Feigenbaum: my regrets for next week

14:04:34 <ivan> regrets next week

Ivan Herman: regrets next week

14:04:36 <chimezie> Axel: I can scribe and chair if necessary

Axel Polleres: I can scribe and chair if necessary

14:04:36 <LeeF> David

Lee Feigenbaum: David

14:04:40 <LeeF> Alex did last week

Lee Feigenbaum: Alex did last week

14:04:46 <LeeF> err, not David

Lee Feigenbaum: err, not David

14:05:01 <ivan> I hope to be at WWW (volcano willing)

Ivan Herman: I hope to be at WWW (volcano willing)

14:05:02 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:05:02 <LeeF> OlivierCorby, can you scribe next week?

Lee Feigenbaum: OlivierCorby, can you scribe next week?

14:05:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see AxelPolleres, kasei, bglimm (muted), AndyS, Lee_Feigenbaum (muted), OlivierCorby, Ivan, SteveH, Souri, Chimezie_Ogbuji, MattPerry

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AxelPolleres, kasei, bglimm (muted), AndyS, Lee_Feigenbaum (muted), OlivierCorby, Ivan, SteveH, Souri, Chimezie_Ogbuji, MattPerry

14:05:38 <AxelPolleres> next time scribing Olivier

Axel Polleres: next time scribing Olivier

14:05:55 <AxelPolleres> topic: comments

1. comments

14:05:57 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments

14:06:03 <chimezie> Need to progress through comments

Need to progress through comments

14:06:13 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Apr/0000.html

Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Apr/0000.html

14:06:17 <kasei> i've tacked that onto my other NH comments.

Gregory Williams: i've tacked that onto my other NH comments.

14:06:26 <Zakim> + +1.919.332.aahh

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.919.332.aahh

14:06:32 <kasei> they all sort of belong together

Gregory Williams: they all sort of belong together

14:06:47 <kasei> sure

Gregory Williams: sure

14:06:56 <dcharbon2> zakim, mute me

David Charboneau: zakim, mute me

14:06:56 <Zakim> sorry, dcharbon2, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, dcharbon2, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

14:06:59 <AxelPolleres> greg takes care

Axel Polleres: greg takes care

14:07:03 <dcharbon2> zakim, who is on the phone?

David Charboneau: zakim, who is on the phone?

14:07:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see AxelPolleres, kasei, bglimm (muted), AndyS, Lee_Feigenbaum (muted), OlivierCorby, Ivan, SteveH, Souri, Chimezie_Ogbuji, MattPerry, +1.919.332.aahh

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AxelPolleres, kasei, bglimm (muted), AndyS, Lee_Feigenbaum (muted), OlivierCorby, Ivan, SteveH, Souri, Chimezie_Ogbuji, MattPerry, +1.919.332.aahh

14:07:11 <dcharbon2> zakim, aahh is me

David Charboneau: zakim, aahh is me

14:07:11 <Zakim> +dcharbon2; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +dcharbon2; got it

14:07:16 <LeeF> RDB2RDF is close to publishing a UC&R document

Lee Feigenbaum: RDB2RDF is close to publishing a UC&R document

14:07:19 <chimezie> Axel: Liasons.  Anything to report?

Axel Polleres: Liasons. Anything to report?

14:08:16 <chimezie> Souri: going over usecase, not final yet, but coming close

Souripriya Das: going over usecase, not final yet, but coming close

14:08:19 <AxelPolleres> Souri: RDB2RDF will soon have UC doc

Souripriya Das: RDB2RDF will soon have UC doc [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ]

14:08:23 <kasei> Zakim, mute me

Gregory Williams: Zakim, mute me

14:08:23 <Zakim> kasei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should now be muted

14:08:27 <AxelPolleres> Axel: we might want to review

Axel Polleres: we might want to review [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ]

14:08:33 <dcharbon2> zakim, mute me

David Charboneau: zakim, mute me

14:08:33 <Zakim> dcharbon2 should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: dcharbon2 should now be muted

14:08:50 <Zakim> +??P35

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P35

14:08:53 <chimezie> Axel: Wording for conditions on entailment regimes

Axel Polleres: Wording for conditions on entailment regimes

14:09:01 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??P35 is me

Alexandre Passant: Zakim, ??P35 is me

14:09:01 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it

14:09:13 <AxelPolleres> topic: entailment conditions rewordings

2. entailment conditions rewordings

14:09:13 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0030.html

Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0030.html

14:09:26 <AxelPolleres> q?

Axel Polleres: q?

14:09:38 <AxelPolleres> birte?

Axel Polleres: birte?

14:10:17 <LeeF> I was happy with the latest proposed text (per the mailing list)

Lee Feigenbaum: I was happy with the latest proposed text (per the mailing list)

14:10:19 <chimezie> Axel: 1st condition.  SG G is uniquely specified and E-equivalent to regime

Axel Polleres: 1st condition. SG G is uniquely specified and E-equivalent to regime

14:10:39 <chimezie> ... need to be specific about graph equivalence

... need to be specific about graph equivalence

14:11:09 <AndyS> ?? If the bnode labels differ, OPTIONAL does not work?

Andy Seaborne: ?? If the bnode labels differ, OPTIONAL does not work?

14:11:25 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/mid/z2i492f2b0b1004190346k2f1eb1f3z67eeb0d5071dfc22@mail.gmail.com

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/mid/z2i492f2b0b1004190346k2f1eb1f3z67eeb0d5071dfc22@mail.gmail.com

14:12:11 <AxelPolleres> "uniquely" --> "uniquely up to RDF graph equivalence"

Axel Polleres: "uniquely" --> "uniquely up to RDF graph equivalence"

14:12:13 <AxelPolleres> q?

Axel Polleres: q?

14:12:14 <chimezie> Axel: added 'uniquely up to RDF graph equivalence'

Axel Polleres: added 'uniquely up to RDF graph equivalence'

14:12:45 <chimezie> AndyS: how does this work with the rest of the algebra?

Andy Seaborne: how does this work with the rest of the algebra?

14:12:52 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me

14:12:52 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted

14:13:04 <chimezie> ... what about use of OPTIONAL, how do you roundtrip the blank nodes properly?

... what about use of OPTIONAL, how do you roundtrip the blank nodes properly?

14:13:26 <AxelPolleres> q?

Axel Polleres: q?

14:15:00 <chimezie> Axel: SG is always determined before hand

Axel Polleres: SG is always determined before hand

14:15:00 <chimezie> ... so, blank nodes could differ from AG but uniquely determined module bnode mapping

... so, blank nodes could differ from AG but uniquely determined module bnode mapping

14:15:02 <AndyS> OK - I understand now

Andy Seaborne: OK - I understand now

14:15:11 <AxelPolleres> Axel: I understoo that the SG is unique for the whole query

Axel Polleres: I understoo that the SG is unique for the whole query [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ]

14:15:32 <AndyS> No need to change the text proposed.

Andy Seaborne: No need to change the text proposed.

14:15:38 <AxelPolleres> ... do we need to stress that?

Axel Polleres: ... do we need to stress that?

14:16:20 <chimezie> AndyS: fine with condition 1 as it is now

Andy Seaborne: fine with condition 1 as it is now

14:16:47 <chimezie> Axel: Each extension provides conditions to ensure finite answers

Axel Polleres: Each extension provides conditions to ensure finite answers

14:16:58 <chimezie> ... 1) finiteness 2) uniqueness up to blank node rephrasing

... 1) finiteness 2) uniqueness up to blank node rephrasing

14:16:59 <bglimm> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0055.html

Birte Glimm: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0055.html

14:17:31 <bglimm> change from

Birte Glimm: change from

14:17:31 <bglimm> 4 -- Each SPARQL extension must provide conditions on answer sets

Birte Glimm: 4 -- Each SPARQL extension must provide conditions on answer sets

14:17:31 <bglimm>      which guarantee that every BGP and AG has a finite set of answers

Birte Glimm: which guarantee that every BGP and AG has a finite set of answers

14:17:31 <bglimm>      which is unique up to RDF graph equivalence.

Birte Glimm: which is unique up to RDF graph equivalence.

14:17:32 <bglimm> to

Birte Glimm: to

14:17:32 <bglimm> 4 -- Each SPARQL extension MUST provide conditions, which guarantee

Birte Glimm: 4 -- Each SPARQL extension MUST provide conditions, which guarantee

14:17:34 <bglimm>      that the answer set for every BGP and AG is uniquely specified up to

Birte Glimm: that the answer set for every BGP and AG is uniquely specified up to

14:17:36 <bglimm>      RDF graph equivalence, and SHOULD provide further conditions to

Birte Glimm: RDF graph equivalence, and SHOULD provide further conditions to

14:17:38 <bglimm>      prevent trivial infinite answers as appropriate to the regime.

Birte Glimm: prevent trivial infinite answers as appropriate to the regime.

14:19:04 <AxelPolleres> q?

Axel Polleres: q?

14:20:27 <chimezie> bglimm: need to say what the SG is and then what inferences you make, and then ensure the answers are the same where the only difference is blank node renaming

Birte Glimm: need to say what the SG is and then what inferences you make, and then ensure the answers are the same where the only difference is blank node renaming

14:20:49 <Zakim> + +1.312.863.aaii

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.312.863.aaii

14:20:50 <chimezie> AndyS: what is the role of blank nodes in SG, how can they vary?

Andy Seaborne: what is the role of blank nodes in SG, how can they vary?

14:20:57 <AxelPolleres> q+ to ask about blank nodes

Axel Polleres: q+ to ask about blank nodes

14:20:59 <chimezie> bglimm: you can invent new ones

Birte Glimm: you can invent new ones

14:21:09 <pgearon> Zakim, aaii is me

Paul Gearon: Zakim, aaii is me

14:21:09 <Zakim> +pgearon; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon; got it

14:23:33 <chimezie> P(BGP) is the answer set 'graph'

P(BGP) is the answer set 'graph'

14:25:06 <AxelPolleres> I think we can resolve on condition 1... we need a wording for condition 4.

Axel Polleres: I think we can resolve on condition 1... we need a wording for condition 4.

14:25:47 <chimezie> Axel: should we take this to the ML

Axel Polleres: should we take this to the ML

14:26:01 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: change Condition 1 as suggested in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0055.html

PROPOSED: change Condition 1 as suggested in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0055.html

14:26:35 <bglimm> 1 -- The scoping graph, SG, corresponding to any consistent active

Birte Glimm: 1 -- The scoping graph, SG, corresponding to any consistent active

14:26:35 <bglimm>       graph AG is specified uniquely up to RDF graph equivalence and is

Birte Glimm: graph AG is specified uniquely up to RDF graph equivalence and is

14:26:35 <bglimm>       E-equivalent to AG.

Birte Glimm: E-equivalent to AG.

14:26:56 <bglimm> +1

Birte Glimm: +1

14:27:09 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: change Condition 1 as suggested in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0055.html

RESOLVED: change Condition 1 as suggested in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0055.html

14:27:36 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Birte to reformulate Condition 4

ACTION: Birte to reformulate Condition 4

14:27:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-221 - Reformulate Condition 4 [on Birte Glimm - due 2010-04-27].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-221 - Reformulate Condition 4 [on Birte Glimm - due 2010-04-27].

14:27:55 <chimezie> Axel: next on agenda - issue 49

Axel Polleres: next on agenda - ISSUE-49

14:27:56 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

14:27:58 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted

14:28:11 <chimezie> ... Graphs as information resources, etc.

... Graphs as information resources, etc.

14:28:12 <AxelPolleres> topic: ISSUE-49

3. ISSUE-49

14:28:13 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0048.html

Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0048.html

14:28:34 <kasei> Zakim, unmute me

Gregory Williams: Zakim, unmute me

14:28:34 <Zakim> kasei should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should no longer be muted

14:29:05 <chimezie> Greg: I brought this up on behalf of Kjetl

Gregory Williams: I brought this up on behalf of Kjetl

14:29:11 <AndyS> "Information resource" => "A resource which has the property that all of its essential  characteristics can be conveyed in a message." (AWWW)

Andy Seaborne: "Information resource" => "A resource which has the property that all of its essential characteristics can be conveyed in a message." (AWWW)

14:29:14 <chimezie> ... the definitions are loose, the wording should be cleared up

... the definitions are loose, the wording should be cleared up

14:29:35 <chimezie> ... distinction between graphs and IRI used to reference the graph or the IR serialized by the graph

... distinction between graphs and IRI used to reference the graph or the IR serialized by the graph

14:29:48 <chimezie> ... terminology is confusing

... terminology is confusing

14:29:50 <AxelPolleres> q?

Axel Polleres: q?

14:29:56 <AxelPolleres> ack me

Axel Polleres: ack me

14:29:56 <Zakim> AxelPolleres, you wanted to ask about blank nodes

Zakim IRC Bot: AxelPolleres, you wanted to ask about blank nodes

14:29:58 <chimezie> ... need to clear up the language

... need to clear up the language

14:30:21 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/#http-get

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/#http-get

14:31:39 <ivan> there is no serialization involved, is there?

Ivan Herman: there is no serialization involved, is there?

14:31:55 <chimezie> ... the distinction is important with regards to http-range-4

... the distinction is important with regards to http-range-4

14:32:25 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

14:32:25 <chimezie> Axel: assumed that the issue was the use of the word equivalence

Axel Polleres: assumed that the issue was the use of the word equivalence

14:32:35 <AlexPassant> s/4/14

Alexandre Passant: s/4/14

14:33:14 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0065.html

Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0065.html

14:33:27 <AxelPolleres> This is equivalent to the following SPARQL query:

Axel Polleres: This is equivalent to the following SPARQL query:

14:33:27 <AxelPolleres>

Axel Polleres:

14:33:28 <AxelPolleres> CONSTRUCT { ?s ?p ?o } WHERE { GRAPH <graph_uri> { ?s ?p ?o } }

Axel Polleres: CONSTRUCT { ?s ?p ?o } WHERE { GRAPH <graph_uri> { ?s ?p ?o } }

14:33:29 <chimezie> ... in the SPARQL 1.0 document, there is some confusion but it the uri does not reference the graph

... in the SPARQL 1.0 document, there is some confusion but it the uri does not reference the graph

14:33:45 <ivan> q-

Ivan Herman: q-

14:33:48 <AxelPolleres> "This may be viewed equivalent to the following SPARQL query:

Axel Polleres: "This may be viewed equivalent to the following SPARQL query:

14:33:48 <AxelPolleres>  CONSTRUCT { ?s ?p ?o } WHERE { GRAPH <graph_uri> { ?s ?p ?o } }

Axel Polleres: CONSTRUCT { ?s ?p ?o } WHERE { GRAPH <graph_uri> { ?s ?p ?o } }

14:33:49 <AxelPolleres> posed to a SPARQL endpoint which had any Web retrievable RDF graph in it's

Axel Polleres: posed to a SPARQL endpoint which had any Web retrievable RDF graph in it's

14:33:49 <AxelPolleres> <a href="referencetodefinition of Graph store in Update 1.1">Graph store</a>.

Axel Polleres: <a href="referencetodefinition of Graph store in Update 1.1">Graph store</a>.

14:33:49 <AxelPolleres> "

Axel Polleres: "

14:34:24 <kasei> <graph_uri>

Gregory Williams: <graph_uri>

14:35:50 <kasei> from SPARQL 1.0:

Gregory Williams: from SPARQL 1.0:

14:35:53 <kasei> """The FROM NAMED syntax suggests that the IRI identifies the corresponding graph, but the relationship between an IRI and a graph in an RDF dataset is indirect. The IRI identifies a resource, and the resource is represented by a graph (or, more precisely: by a document that serializes a graph)."""

Gregory Williams: """The FROM NAMED syntax suggests that the IRI identifies the corresponding graph, but the relationship between an IRI and a graph in an RDF dataset is indirect. The IRI identifies a resource, and the resource is represented by a graph (or, more precisely: by a document that serializes a graph)."""

14:39:59 <chimezie> "We recall from [SPARQL] that IRIs for RDF graphs in SPARQL queries identify a resource, and the resource is represented by a graph (or, more precisely: by a document that serializes a graph)"

"We recall from [SPARQL] that IRIs for RDF graphs in SPARQL queries identify a resource, and the resource is represented by a graph (or, more precisely: by a document that serializes a graph)"

14:40:38 <kasei> +1 AndyS

Gregory Williams: +1 AndyS

14:43:29 <kasei> the trouble is the parenthetical

Gregory Williams: the trouble is the parenthetical

14:43:40 <kasei> AndyS is talking about the parenthetical, Chimezie about the thing right before it.

Gregory Williams: AndyS is talking about the parenthetical, Chimezie about the thing right before it.

14:44:23 <AxelPolleres> could we type in a rephrasing?

Axel Polleres: could we type in a rephrasing?

14:45:05 <kasei> just merging the parenthetical back into the sentence would be a good start.

Gregory Williams: just merging the parenthetical back into the sentence would be a good start.

14:45:20 <Zakim> -AlexPassant

Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant

14:46:46 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: chime to propose rewordings on mailinglist on http-protocol which clarify ISSUE-49

ACTION: chime to propose rewordings on mailinglist on http-protocol which clarify ISSUE-49

14:46:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-222 - Propose rewordings on mailinglist on http-protocol which clarify ISSUE-49 [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2010-04-27].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-222 - Propose rewordings on mailinglist on http-protocol which clarify ISSUE-49 [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2010-04-27].

14:46:58 <AxelPolleres> q?

Axel Polleres: q?

14:47:34 <Zakim> +??P35

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P35

14:47:36 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??P35 is me

Alexandre Passant: Zakim, ??P35 is me

14:47:36 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it

14:47:52 <kasei> Zakim, mute me

Gregory Williams: Zakim, mute me

14:47:52 <Zakim> kasei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should now be muted

14:48:13 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-update/#sec_graphStore

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-update/#sec_graphStore

14:49:24 <AxelPolleres> q?

Axel Polleres: q?

14:50:08 <AxelPolleres> topic: test suite

4. test suite

Summary: next time discuss Fed queries and publication schedule, all editors, let us know how far you are wrt. publication of next round!

14:50:29 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html

14:50:37 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

14:51:39 <chimezie> Axel: will need multiple manifests for testing framework

Axel Polleres: will need multiple manifests for testing framework

14:52:16 <chimezie> ... keep SPARQL 1.0 test cases as is and extend for 1.1 features?

... keep SPARQL 1.0 test cases as is and extend for 1.1 features?

14:53:17 <chimezie> ... my proposal is to include reference to old test cases - copying old manifest - and create new subdirectories for 1.1 features

... my proposal is to include reference to old test cases - copying old manifest - and create new subdirectories for 1.1 features

14:53:25 <chimezie> ... but still only have 1 manifest file that extends the old one

... but still only have 1 manifest file that extends the old one

14:53:58 <chimezie> Axel: what to do about update test cases?

Axel Polleres: what to do about update test cases?

14:54:27 <chimezie> ... update evaluation test cases need to cover different kinds of results: errors, results, etc..

... update evaluation test cases need to cover different kinds of results: errors, results, etc..

14:54:40 <chimezie> ... need to also describe before and after status of the graph store

... need to also describe before and after status of the graph store

14:55:03 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html

14:56:21 <AxelPolleres> ... new properties ut:unnamedGraph, ut:namedGraph

Axel Polleres: ... new properties ut:unnamedGraph, ut:namedGraph

14:56:40 <AxelPolleres> ... ut:graph

Axel Polleres: ... ut:graph

14:56:44 <AxelPolleres> ... ut:named similar in spirit to sd: vocabulary, to describe graph store status.

Axel Polleres: ... ut:named similar in spirit to sd: vocabulary, to describe graph store status.

14:57:11 <AxelPolleres> ... objections? comments?

Axel Polleres: ... objections? comments?

14:57:34 <AxelPolleres> zakim, pick a victim

Axel Polleres: zakim, pick a victim

14:57:34 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Chimezie_Ogbuji

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Chimezie_Ogbuji

14:57:55 <bglimm> I'll look and see how entailments could fit in

Birte Glimm: I'll look and see how entailments could fit in

14:57:58 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: chime to look over http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html

ACTION: chime to look over http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html

14:57:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-223 - Look over http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2010-04-27].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-223 - Look over http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2010-04-27].

14:58:25 <kasei> when are we scheduled for next publication?

Gregory Williams: when are we scheduled for next publication?

14:59:46 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to check with editors what's the status of docs wrt. publication schedule

ACTION: axel to check with editors what's the status of docs wrt. publication schedule

14:59:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-224 - Check with editors what's the status of docs wrt. publication schedule [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-04-27].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-224 - Check with editors what's the status of docs wrt. publication schedule [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-04-27].

14:59:46 <Zakim> -bglimm

Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm

15:00:36 <AxelPolleres> summary: next time discuss Fed queries and publication schedule, all editors, let us know how far you are wrt. publication of next round!
15:00:46 <MattPerry>  quit

Matthew Perry: quit

15:00:46 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji

Zakim IRC Bot: -Chimezie_Ogbuji

15:00:47 <ivan> zakim, drop me

Ivan Herman: zakim, drop me

15:00:47 <Zakim> -Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri

15:00:47 <Zakim> -dcharbon2

Zakim IRC Bot: -dcharbon2

15:00:47 <Zakim> -SteveH

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH

15:00:48 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan is being disconnected

15:00:48 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

15:00:49 <Zakim> -kasei

Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei

15:00:51 <Zakim> -pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon

15:00:51 <AxelPolleres> chair: axel polleres
15:00:59 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby

Zakim IRC Bot: -OlivierCorby

15:01:01 <Zakim> -Lee_Feigenbaum

Zakim IRC Bot: -Lee_Feigenbaum

15:01:03 <Zakim> -MattPerry

Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry

15:01:04 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public

Axel Polleres: rrsagent, make records public

15:01:13 <Zakim> -AlexPassant

Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant

15:01:15 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres

Zakim IRC Bot: -AxelPolleres

15:01:19 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

15:01:21 <Zakim> Attendees were +03539149aaaa, AxelPolleres, +1.518.276.aabb, kasei, bglimm, Lee_Feigenbaum, +49.238.aadd, +0208439aaee, OlivierCorby, Ivan, +0208439aaff, +1.603.897.aagg, Souri,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +03539149aaaa, AxelPolleres, +1.518.276.aabb, kasei, bglimm, Lee_Feigenbaum, +49.238.aadd, +0208439aaee, OlivierCorby, Ivan, +0208439aaff, +1.603.897.aagg, Souri,

15:01:21 <kasei> sandro, any eta on the service description graph naming issue response?

Gregory Williams: sandro, any eta on the service description graph naming issue response?

15:01:28 <Zakim> ... Chimezie_Ogbuji, AndyS, MattPerry, SteveH, +1.919.332.aahh, dcharbon2, AlexPassant, +1.312.863.aaii, pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Chimezie_Ogbuji, AndyS, MattPerry, SteveH, +1.919.332.aahh, dcharbon2, AlexPassant, +1.312.863.aaii, pgearon

15:02:14 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to fix the example in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html

ACTION: axel to fix the example in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html

15:02:18 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to fix the example in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html

ACTION: axel to fix the example in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html

15:02:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-225 - Fix the example in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-04-27].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-225 - Fix the example in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-04-27].

15:02:21 <AxelPolleres> adjourned

Axel Polleres: adjourned

15:02:40 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public

Axel Polleres: rrsagent, make records public

15:11:59 <LeeF> Are there any XML schema datatypes that have a value space that maintains precision (i.e. lexical forms "2.0" and "2.00" correspond to different values)?

(No events recorded for 9 minutes)

Lee Feigenbaum: Are there any XML schema datatypes that have a value space that maintains precision (i.e. lexical forms "2.0" and "2.00" correspond to different values)?

15:17:20 <kasei> ick

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Gregory Williams: ick

15:17:23 <SteveH> LeeF, string :)

Steve Harris: LeeF, string :)

15:20:00 <kasei> haha

Gregory Williams: haha

15:20:54 <LeeF> oy

Lee Feigenbaum: oy

15:21:00 <LeeF> what should i tell my scientist users? :)

Lee Feigenbaum: what should i tell my scientist users? :)

15:21:59 <SteveH> they should relax? ;)

Steve Harris: they should relax? ;)

15:22:11 <LeeF> lol

Lee Feigenbaum: lol

15:24:10 <LeeF> I'm going to tell them to call you, Steve.

Lee Feigenbaum: I'm going to tell them to call you, Steve.

15:32:27 <kasei> LeeF, why are you constrained to XSD? If you've got specific needs, why not make your own?

(No events recorded for 8 minutes)

Gregory Williams: LeeF, why are you constrained to XSD? If you've got specific needs, why not make your own?

16:12:05 <LeeF> because i don't want to invent a wheel on my own

(No events recorded for 39 minutes)

Lee Feigenbaum: because i don't want to invent a wheel on my own

16:12:45 <LeeF> i've got a bunch of software based around RDF (which means XSD as the basis for literal typing), and I'd like to support a use case that requires this, but it's not the core of what i do :)

Lee Feigenbaum: i've got a bunch of software based around RDF (which means XSD as the basis for literal typing), and I'd like to support a use case that requires this, but it's not the core of what i do :)

16:24:21 <SteveH> if they have "12.000"^^sci:number they can cast as appropriate

(No events recorded for 11 minutes)

Steve Harris: if they have "12.000"^^sci:number they can cast as appropriate

19:10:33 <kasei> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:NH-1

(No events recorded for 166 minutes)

Gregory Williams: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:NH-1

19:10:37 <kasei> anyone want to glance over that?

Gregory Williams: anyone want to glance over that?

19:12:04 <kasei> Mostly concerned about the last paragraph. Not sure it's exactly "beyond the scope" of the SD work, but it's never been discussed before and I'm not sure there are any implementations (except NH's week-old one which brought up the issue) which do it.

Gregory Williams: Mostly concerned about the last paragraph. Not sure it's exactly "beyond the scope" of the SD work, but it's never been discussed before and I'm not sure there are any implementations (except NH's week-old one which brought up the issue) which do it.

19:12:38 <kasei> so worried about the timing and feature creep

Gregory Williams: so worried about the timing and feature creep

19:20:23 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-189

(No events recorded for 7 minutes)

Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-189

19:20:23 <trackbot> ACTION-189 Get back to ivanh on the usabuility of POWDER for SD. closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-189 Get back to ivanh on the usabuility of POWDER for SD. closed

19:20:26 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-214

Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-214

19:20:26 <trackbot> ACTION-214 Add ability to mark individual graphs with their entailment regime closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-214 Add ability to mark individual graphs with their entailment regime closed

19:22:19 <LeeF> kasei, I think that response is fine

Lee Feigenbaum: kasei, I think that response is fine

19:22:40 <kasei> ok. the one thing I haven't addressed yet is his question about indicating parsable formats.

Gregory Williams: ok. the one thing I haven't addressed yet is his question about indicating parsable formats.

19:22:55 <kasei> we're now doing result formats, but not parsing formats.

Gregory Williams: we're now doing result formats, but not parsing formats.

19:23:11 <kasei> hesitant to keep adding things, but does seem like a strange asymmetry.

Gregory Williams: hesitant to keep adding things, but does seem like a strange asymmetry.



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This revision (#1) generated 2010-04-25 15:17:48 UTC by 'apollere2', comments: None