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<ssahoo2> Scribe: ssahoo2
trackbot, start telecon
<trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 20 November 2009
nick satya
<cgi-irc> +358.504 is me (Ian Oliver)
<pgroth> who is here
<smiles> ??P14 is really me
<Irini> +030281139aacc is Irini
Yolanda: Agenda item: organization of use case
Paolo: finalizing collection of bibliography
Yolanda: introduction of new participants
Olivier: how two RDF graphs can
be related to each other?
... Extend notion of RDF molecules to track provenance
... How provenance is represented, used
<ioliver> I'm not "new" to the group, I was here at the beginning :-)
<Deborah> 5182764404 is Deborah McGuinness and Paulo Pinheiro da Silva today
Michael: interest in linked data
scenario
... keeping track of provenance at fine level of
granularity
... tracking provenance in bibliographic formats
Mark: from metadata working group
<Deborah> jim mccusker
<Aleksey> that should be me as well [IPcaller]
<Aleksey> not sure
Paul: organization of use cases along dimensions
<jun> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Use_Cases#Use
<Paolo> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Use_Cases
Paul: Dimensions for organizing
the use case: three groupings
... 1st category: What provenance represents
... 2nd category: provenance management
... 3rd category: use of provenance
... each category for classifying use cases has further details
at: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Use_Cases
... Dissemination control for provenance can include licensing
information
... use category for provenance includes trust computation from
provenance information
... use category for incomplete provenance or in presence of
errors
Yolanda: Deb, Luc, Yolanda and Paul participated in creating the categories
Paolo: agrees with
categorization
... content is primary category to classify use cases
<Paolo> yes I said content is the category that actually captures "use"
Simon: use cases can be easly classified using the categorization
Michael: imperfection,
interoperability can also be issues in provenance collection
and not just use
... where does this fit in persistence of provenance
metadata
who is the speaker?
<smiles> olaf is the speaker i think
<olaf> yes that was me
olaf: please type in your question
Paul: Information quality is similar to trust
Paulo: quality of provenance can
be used to understand results
... provenance as infrastructure
Jim: need for multi-level, multi-scale provenance
Luc: debugging should be added under use category
<Luc2> i think we want to say that the dimensions ARE NOT mutually exclusive
<pgroth_> agreed
<Deborah> +1
<pgroth_> and the use case illustrates a particular one
Yolanda: classify use cases under the dimensions by participants
<JimM> ageed as well - I think a summary of my point is that I think it works pretty well as a matrix and one can ask if the matrix is full (each thing in Use has stuff in COntent and Management that link to it, each type of Content is needed for one or more things in Use, etc.)
<JimM> allowing queries is a management use case
<Aleksey> sorry, I can’t speak, I’ll type the question: should fraud provenance be also managed under the imperfections category?
<pgroth_> what is fraud provenance?
<Aleksey> attempts to fraud
<pgroth_> agreed that it should go under imperfections
<JimM> I think agency (versus attribution of who's reporting) is a needed type of Content and a Content use case (different agents reporting different parts of provenance) that will also be important in trust and other uses
Paul: fraud provenance under imperfections
<JimM> sorry - multiple witnesses reporting that multiple agents were responsible for multiple parts of the trail
Paolo: access is a means to an end
Michael: distinguish regular metadata from provenance metadata
Paul: attribution is who created the article
<JimM> the author of a NYTimes article is an agent which is a separate concept frm who reports/witnesses it
Jim: need both agent and
witness
... connection between provenance and general metadata
Yolanda: Use cases can include some dimensions as primary and others as secondary
<JimM> there is an inference possible between 'general metadata' and provenance that often confuses our discussion - we might need to agree that talking about things like dc:creator are shorthand for the provenance-relevant fact that the author was an agent in cotrol of a writing process,etc.
Paolo: created a google mail
account for bibliography and a mendeley account owned by gmail
account
... interested users can mail Paolo for account information
<Deborah> Next IPAW announcement will come out before next meeting - June 15-16 with hackathon preceding on monday june 14 and provenance challenge planning following on thurs
<raphael> Yes, but we might have a member mailing list
<pgroth_> cool deb... going for the hackathon
Deborah: IPAW annoucement next
week
... possible F2F at RPI
<michaelp> I agree with JimM think there is a general distinction between "regular" metadata and provenace metadata. One might lead to the inference of the other, but those two levels of description statements about entities have to be kept seperate.
<raphael> Scribenik: ssahoo2
<raphael> Scribe: Satya
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