Provenance XG

20 Nov 2009


See also: IRC log


michaelp, satya, YolandaG, +358.504.83aabb, Ivan, pgroth, smiles, +49.308.937.aadd, olaf, +7.968.81.aaee, +1.860.995.aaff, Irini, Paolo, +1.518.276.aagg, jcheney, raphael, jun, Paulo, +1.609.936.aahh, mccusker, aleksey
Yolanda Gil
ssahoo2, Satya




<ssahoo2> Scribe: ssahoo2

trackbot, start telecon

<trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 20 November 2009

nick satya

<cgi-irc> +358.504 is me (Ian Oliver)

<pgroth> who is here

<smiles> ??P14 is really me

<Irini> +030281139aacc is Irini

Yolanda: Agenda item: organization of use case

Paolo: finalizing collection of bibliography

Yolanda: introduction of new participants

Olivier: how two RDF graphs can be related to each other?
... Extend notion of RDF molecules to track provenance
... How provenance is represented, used

<ioliver> I'm not "new" to the group, I was here at the beginning :-)

<Deborah> 5182764404 is Deborah McGuinness and Paulo Pinheiro da Silva today

Michael: interest in linked data scenario
... keeping track of provenance at fine level of granularity
... tracking provenance in bibliographic formats

Mark: from metadata working group

<Deborah> jim mccusker

<Aleksey> that should be me as well [IPcaller]

<Aleksey> not sure

Paul: organization of use cases along dimensions

<jun> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Use_Cases#Use

<Paolo> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Use_Cases

Paul: Dimensions for organizing the use case: three groupings
... 1st category: What provenance represents
... 2nd category: provenance management
... 3rd category: use of provenance
... each category for classifying use cases has further details at: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Use_Cases
... Dissemination control for provenance can include licensing information
... use category for provenance includes trust computation from provenance information
... use category for incomplete provenance or in presence of errors

Yolanda: Deb, Luc, Yolanda and Paul participated in creating the categories

Paolo: agrees with categorization
... content is primary category to classify use cases

<Paolo> yes I said content is the category that actually captures "use"

Simon: use cases can be easly classified using the categorization

Michael: imperfection, interoperability can also be issues in provenance collection and not just use
... where does this fit in persistence of provenance metadata

who is the speaker?

<smiles> olaf is the speaker i think

<olaf> yes that was me

olaf: please type in your question

Paul: Information quality is similar to trust

Paulo: quality of provenance can be used to understand results
... provenance as infrastructure

Jim: need for multi-level, multi-scale provenance

Luc: debugging should be added under use category

<Luc2> i think we want to say that the dimensions ARE NOT mutually exclusive

<pgroth_> agreed

<Deborah> +1

<pgroth_> and the use case illustrates a particular one

Yolanda: classify use cases under the dimensions by participants

<JimM> ageed as well - I think a summary of my point is that I think it works pretty well as a matrix and one can ask if the matrix is full (each thing in Use has stuff in COntent and Management that link to it, each type of Content is needed for one or more things in Use, etc.)

<JimM> allowing queries is a management use case

<Aleksey> sorry, I can’t speak, I’ll type the question: should fraud provenance be also managed under the imperfections category?

<pgroth_> what is fraud provenance?

<Aleksey> attempts to fraud

<pgroth_> agreed that it should go under imperfections

<JimM> I think agency (versus attribution of who's reporting) is a needed type of Content and a Content use case (different agents reporting different parts of provenance) that will also be important in trust and other uses

Paul: fraud provenance under imperfections

<JimM> sorry - multiple witnesses reporting that multiple agents were responsible for multiple parts of the trail

Paolo: access is a means to an end

Michael: distinguish regular metadata from provenance metadata

Paul: attribution is who created the article

<JimM> the author of a NYTimes article is an agent which is a separate concept frm who reports/witnesses it

Jim: need both agent and witness
... connection between provenance and general metadata

Yolanda: Use cases can include some dimensions as primary and others as secondary

<JimM> there is an inference possible between 'general metadata' and provenance that often confuses our discussion - we might need to agree that talking about things like dc:creator are shorthand for the provenance-relevant fact that the author was an agent in cotrol of a writing process,etc.

Paolo: created a google mail account for bibliography and a mendeley account owned by gmail account
... interested users can mail Paolo for account information

<Deborah> Next IPAW announcement will come out before next meeting - June 15-16 with hackathon preceding on monday june 14 and provenance challenge planning following on thurs

<raphael> Yes, but we might have a member mailing list

<pgroth_> cool deb... going for the hackathon

Deborah: IPAW annoucement next week
... possible F2F at RPI

<michaelp> I agree with JimM think there is a general distinction between "regular" metadata and provenace metadata. One might lead to the inference of the other, but those two levels of description statements about entities have to be kept seperate.

<raphael> Scribenik: ssahoo2

<raphael> Scribe: Satya

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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Default Present: michaelp, satya, YolandaG, +358.504.83aabb, Ivan, pgroth, smiles, +49.308.937.aadd, olaf, +7.968.81.aaee, +1.860.995.aaff, Irini, Paolo, +1.518.276.aagg, jcheney, raphael, jun, Paulo, +1.609.936.aahh, mccusker, aleksey
Present: michaelp satya YolandaG +358.504.83aabb Ivan pgroth smiles +49.308.937.aadd olaf +7.968.81.aaee +1.860.995.aaff Irini Paolo +1.518.276.aagg jcheney raphael jun Paulo +1.609.936.aahh mccusker aleksey
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2009Nov/0032.html
Found Date: 20 Nov 2009
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/20-prov-xg-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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