RIF telecon 28 July 2009 -- 28 Jul 2009

<csma> agendum+ Admin

<csma> agendum+ Liaisons

<csma> agendum+ Actions review

<csma> agendum+ LC public comments

<csma> agendum+ Next steps (incl. telecon schedule)

<csma> agendum+RIF and XML data

<csma> agendum+ Test cases

<csma> agendum+ AOB

<ChrisW> i'm running late

<csma> Scribe: Stella Mitchell

<csma> scribenick: Stella_Mitchell

Admin

<csma> Chair: Christian de Sainte Marie

<StellaMitchell> csma: any agenda ammendments?

<StellaMitchell> csma: will approve minutes from last week at next telecon

<StellaMitchell> csma: minutes of June 23 are missing

<csma> next item

<StellaMitchell> csma: any news from liaisons?

<StellaMitchell> sandro: OWL's implementation report is delayed

<StellaMitchell> sandro: I believe Hassan was the scribe on June 23 - it was a short meeting

<csma> next item

<StellaMitchell> action-896 continued

<AdrianP> done

<StellaMitchell> action-895 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-895 Ask participants of RuleML-2008 which did RIF demos to send comments closed

<StellaMitchell> action-894 ??

<StellaMitchell> action-893, action-892-continued

<StellaMitchell> action-889 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-889 Answer FAQ 4.1 closed

<StellaMitchell> action-888 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-888 Answer FAQ 4.3 closed

<StellaMitchell> action-887 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-887 Answer FAQ 4.2 closed

<StellaMitchell> action-886 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-886 Answer FAQ 4.3 - 4.4 closed

<StellaMitchell> action-883 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-883 Answer FAQ 3.7 closed

<StellaMitchell> csma: faq 3.9, 3.10, 3.11 have not been assigned

<StellaMitchell> ....are there volunteers for these faq sections?

<StellaMitchell> leora: I can do 3.9

<StellaMitchell> ACTION: csma to ask jos and axel to answer 3.10 and 3.11 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/28-rif-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-897 - Ask jos and axel to answer 3.10 and 3.11 [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2009-08-04].

<StellaMitchell> ACTION: leora to answer faq 3.9 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/28-rif-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-898 - Answer faq 3.9 [on Leora Morgenstern - due 2009-08-04].

<StellaMitchell> action-875 continued

<StellaMitchell> action-858 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-858 Announce to KR, ask about AAAI, check commonsense closed

<StellaMitchell> action-857 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-857 Announce to RR, XSB, F-Logic, Flora, Lprolog closed

<StellaMitchell> action-850 continued

<StellaMitchell> action-833 continued

<StellaMitchell> action-891 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-891 Post media-type registration to IETF lists closed

<StellaMitchell> action-890 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-890 Answer FAQ 3.8 closed

<StellaMitchell> action-870 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-870 Contact MOZ closed

<StellaMitchell> action-874 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-874 Contact Guido Governatori. closed

<StellaMitchell> action-859 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-859 Annoucne to swi-prolog closed

<StellaMitchell> action-863 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-863 Contact Jos de Roo closed

<csma> next item

<StellaMitchell> csma: we have had two new public comments since last week

<StellaMitchell> ...one is from ontoprise about ontobroker support of RIF

<StellaMitchell> csma: what constitutes an implementation report?

<StellaMitchell> sandro: I will check into this

<StellaMitchell> harold: can you ask them if I can create a link to advertise ontobroker support?

<StellaMitchell> csma: I will ask

<csma> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-comments/2009Jul/0005.html

<sandro> ACTION: sandro to look for a template for implementation reports [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/28-rif-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-899 - Look for a template for implementation reports [on Sandro Hawke - due 2009-08-04].

<StellaMitchell> csma: the other email to the public list has two fairly minor comments

<StellaMitchell> ...means that he reviewed the specs

<StellaMitchell> ...we need to reply to that email

<StellaMitchell> cw: will start the wiki page to organize the responses to these public comments

<csma> next item

<StellaMitchell> cw: we need evidence for the AC that there is community interest in RIF...public comments are one indication of that, and there are also other ways it can be shown

<StellaMitchell> csma: public comment period was to end at the end of this week...do we want to extend this?

<StellaMitchell> cw: csma, do you expect industry comments on PRD?

<StellaMitchell> ....or implementation commitments?

<StellaMitchell> csma: mark proctor is interested in doing an implementation

<StellaMitchell> ...ctic also interested in doing an implementation

<StellaMitchell> ...ilog/ibm, oracle, adrian-with-tibco

<StellaMitchell> cw: commitment to do an implemention is more powerful than public comments

<StellaMitchell> cw: and what about the academic rules community...is there interest in RIF?

<StellaMitchell> mk: yes, have seen interest. there is some confusion among people about who can send reviews/comments

<StellaMitchell> csma: so, do we have enough of a story to move to the next step?

<StellaMitchell> sandro: we should send a reminder that deadline is approaching

<StellaMitchell> cw: we planned on having 3 weeks to put together CR case

<StellaMitchell> harold: do we need to make it more clear that anyone in the public can comment?

<StellaMitchell> sandro: it is already stated in all documents

<sandro> "We're appreciate a comment from anyone who has taken the time to read the draft"

<StellaMitchell> adrian: I can contact event processing and decision ?? communities

<AdrianP> I will remind the CEP community to send comments

<AdrianP> the CEP community is very interested in rules, reaction rules

<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/CR_Transition_Request

<StellaMitchell> csma: then we prepare our case and send a request to move to CR?

<StellaMitchell> sandro: yes, see above as example

<StellaMitchell> csma: so we are looking at end of August, early Sept to move to CR

RIF and XML data

UCR

<StellaMitchell> csma: ILOG person pointed out to me that UCR doesn't have PRD examples

<StellaMitchell> leora: also, other shortcomings of UCR - it should be redone

<StellaMitchell> csma: that's much more work than that I was suggesting

<LeoraMorgenstern> the problem with UCR is that

<LeoraMorgenstern> (1) the examples that we do have aren't covered by dialects like BLD and PRD

<StellaMitchell> adrian: original goal of UCR was to show how rules can be used

<LeoraMorgenstern> (2) we don't have non-trivial examples of what RIF can be used for.

<StellaMitchell> cw: is anyone willing to work on this?

<StellaMitchell> leora: I can work on the UCR examples

<StellaMitchell> ....could use help from harold and michael about non-trivial applications of bld

<StellaMitchell> cw: one use case supported at the core level is mapping between data sources

<Harold> Another non-trivial use case: Dave's OWL 2 RL rules in RIF.

<LeoraMorgenstern> Thank you, Harold.

telecon schedule for August

<StellaMitchell> csma: I will not be able to attend a telecon until aug 25th or after

<StellaMitchell> sandro: i'll be on vacation aug 11

<StellaMitchell> cw: we should meet within the next 2 weeks to discuss CR

<StellaMitchell> cw: I can do a telecon aug 11

<StellaMitchell> csma: next meeting, aug 11?

<StellaMitchell> sandro: how about next week,?

<StellaMitchell> csma: next meeting is aug 11, cw can attend, sandro maybe, csma maybe

<StellaMitchell> cw: subsequent meeting aug 25th

RIF and XML data

<StellaMitchell> csma: I updated this document since last week

<StellaMitchell> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/index.php?title=RIF%2BXML_data-schema

<StellaMitchell> csma: I still need to do more work on the xpath/xquery part of the specification

<StellaMitchell> csma: the document is currently not easy to read because it assumes deep familiarity with XDM (xpath/xquery data model)

<StellaMitchell> csma: Dave and Gary have looked over the document - any further comments from them?

<StellaMitchell> dave: basically what I said in my email (link below)

<StellaMitchell> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2009Jul/0041.html

<StellaMitchell> sandro: I'm sorry I didn't have a chance to look at this yet. How do you deal with xml element names? just concatenating?

<StellaMitchell> csma: yes

<StellaMitchell> sandro: this may be ugly

<StellaMitchell> sandro: ...because in the xml world, namespace names do not always end with punctuation

<StellaMitchell> dave: in the current proposal, he has 2 versions for each case

<StellaMitchell> ...but needs extra details about the qname

<StellaMitchell> csma: would like to avoid specific syntax for handling xml data source

<StellaMitchell> csma: gary commented that we didn't consider using functions and predicates, but only frames

<StellaMitchell> ...but frames can be written as predicates

<StellaMitchell> gary: I think we need extra hints with the import - I don't think we can automatically detect what will be the best encoding

<StellaMitchell> sandro: another possibility is that we could generate all the mappings that might be useful

<StellaMitchell> csma: yes, I prefer this option

<StellaMitchell> gary: sounds good

<StellaMitchell> dave: what is the argument for multiple mappings?

<StellaMitchell> ...better interoperation if there is only one mapping

<StellaMitchell> gary: ordering will be lost in the frames mapping

<StellaMitchell> gary: different mappings are better for different situations

<AdrianP> a general query construct woul be helpful, not just for integrating XML data, but e.g. SQL queries, SPARQL queries, XQuery/XPath queries, ...

<StellaMitchell> gary: with multiple representations, we may have a problem when translating back to xml

<StellaMitchell> cw: can you update the document by the end of august?

<StellaMitchell> csma: yes

<StellaMitchell> cw: aob?

<ChrisW> ACTION: csma to update with text and examples by end of Aug (XML data document) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/28-rif-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-900 - Update with text and examples by end of Aug (XML data document) [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2009-08-04].

- DRAFT -

RIF telecon 28 July 2009

28 Jul 2009

Attendees

Contents

Admin

RIF and XML data

UCR

telecon schedule for August

RIF and XML data

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output