See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 03 June 2009
<smaug> is there a call today?
<smaug> just a minute
<smaug> ok, now I need to find the phonenumber...
<shepazu> scribeNic: MSjacob
<shepazu> scribeNick: MSjacob
<shepazu> shepazu: we have a new participant, Daniel from Google Wave
shepazu: flexible on new telcom
... Send preferences for telcom times to www-DOM mailing list.
shepazu: useful, pain, not performant
Travis: can't deprecate
shepazu: can put something in
place to replace them
... shouldn't change the way they work now
shepazu: bad perf better than breaking content
Travis: are all mutation events slow?
shepazu: will put in spec the ones that perform slowly, use these that operate better
Travis: JS Ninjas proposed
alternate API (maybe from Dean Edwards) watchSelector, mutation
event w/ callback based on a filter
... probably use cases for this and the mutation events
... selector based solution doesn't let you watch attributes
... workaround: use x path
... mostly need to know when one node changes
shepazu: steve sauders says CSS
selectors end up being "malperformant" because people don't
realize there are optimal and suboptimal ways of
... after dev, will this selector-based solution actually be more performant?
Travis: it could be
shepazu: should have conversation on mailing list, if someone can implement it would be great to work on facts
Travis: could try to harvest
feedback on mutation events, if there is a problem we could
solve w/ a new performant mutation event we could just add
... maybe officially deprecate but wouldn't be obsolete
shepazu: two reports from
mozilla: we dont have plans to implement DOMsubtreemodified, we
might even remove some of the others
... probably very small X-browser mutation events
Travis: doesn't say we don't
include in DOM L3 events
... action to start dicuss on mailing list about possible additional solutions that solve the mut. events problem, find existing perf problems and maybe ways to solve them
<smaug> Gecko does support DOMSubtreeModified
<smaug> I implemented it :p
Travis: would love to see more edits of spec as they come
shepazu: hixie requested more
explanation of what each event should do and when it should be
... next thing to go through and add more detail about the events
... jacob: come up with stuff on your own, run things by the rest of team
Travis: and doug and the rest of the guys
<shepazu> ACTION: Travis to send in proposal from CSS Ninjas [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/03-webapps-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-350 - Send in proposal from CSS Ninjas [on Travis Leithead - due 2009-06-10].
shepazu: action for Travis: send in proposal from the JS (CSS) Ninjas
Travis: did you use SVG?
shepazu: added window and made more pretty to events flow
... do these events bubble outside windows (like window in window)
shepazu: they don't
... if you have an iframe, it will not leave the iframe
... maybe in HTML5, hixie might have provided a way to do that
Travis: i think IE does do something like that
shepazu: one exception maybe, in
... should be secure, but shouldn't do it in other scenarios
Travis: makes sense
shepazu: maybe worth noting
events do not bubble outside the window
... by default, events do not bubble outside window. Under certain circumstances, a user agent may allow this when it's determined not to be a security risk
Travis: jacob needs to look at seamless
shepazu: unrelated, for svg we're
looking at a way to do parameters. for example, a button you
want to reuse but alter params.
... useful way of messaging things between frames
shepazu: first one may be nice
and pretty but not as accurate
... first chart attempt at indicating how the text input is generated
Travis: I think we need to do the same thing for IEs moddle
shepazu: please do
... if we can get b/w IE and Mozilla teams (and maybe Daniel from Google Wave) to provide script library to let people use new model on older stuff and go forward with this new model
Travis: I love it
shepazu: rare opportunity to get
it right in a majority of languages. will also bring in a
intern'l expert in on this.
... do we black box it or actually work up an IME model
Travis: If there's a great public IME creation system, that would be great
shepazu: Certain points on a slower connection that you might want to only do things after certain chars (like a space after a word in an AJAX lookup scenario)
Travis: looks like the FF one is pretty accurate. Need to do some thought analysis on this.
shepazu: happy to prettify /
... would like to include as appendix in DOM3 events for interest in the old models
... smaug make sure yours is accurate, Travis MSjacob make a similar one for IE
... then I will try to unify
<shepazu> ACTION: smaug to confirm gecko keyflow diagram [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/03-webapps-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-351 - Confirm gecko keyflow diagram [on Olli Pettay - due 2009-06-10].
<shepazu> ACTION: Travis to create and send in IE keyflow diagram [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/03-webapps-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-352 - Create and send in IE keyflow diagram [on Travis Leithead - due 2009-06-10].
shepazu: don't forget to send in
preferred times for telecon
... any other questions
Travis: link to spec is latest editors draft?
Travis: are the parts that are more/less stable that should be focused on?
shepazu: unstable: mutation
events, keyboard events
... and wheel events
Travis: never closed on line/pixel scrolling
shepazu: got into ideas in
different kinds of wheel events
... more stable: mouse events
... people have asked for additional mouse events
... plans for more advanced ui events (multi touch, pen and tablet)
shepazu: should consult with
... hoping to get them involved in what they want to see on the web
... right now they deal with designers on the desktop, but things are moving to the web
<shepazu> trackbot, make minutes
<trackbot> Sorry, shepazu, I don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found ScribeNick: MSjacob Inferring Scribes: MSjacob Default Present: Shepazu, smaug, Travis, MSjacob Present: Shepazu smaug Travis MSjacob WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Found Date: 03 Jun 2009 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/06/03-webapps-minutes.html People with action items: smaug travis[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]