W3C

- DRAFT -

RIF telecon 25 November 2008

25 Nov 2008

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Sandro, Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, josb, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, csma, StellaMitchell, Adrian, LeoraMorgenstern, Gary, +49.308.387.aaaa, Michael_Kifer, AxelPolleres, Harold
Regrets
ChanghaiKe, PaulVincent
Chair
Chris Welty
Scribe
Adrian Paschke

Contents


 

 

<csma> Scribe: Adrian Paschke

<csma> agendum+ admin

<csma> agendum+ liaisons

<csma> agendum+ public comments

<csma> agendum+ review actions

<csma> agendum+ TF updates

<csma> agendum+ UCR

<csma> agendum+ publication plan

<csma> agendum+ DTB

<csma> agendum+ AOB (pick scribe!)

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Nov/att-0125/2008-11-18-rif-minutes.htm

PROPOSED: accept minutes of last weeks telecon

RESOLUTION: accept minutes of last weeks telecon

admin

liaisons

<josb> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Nov/0122.html

<josb> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Nov/0110.html

<DaveReynolds> Jena does cannonicalization I believe and is supposed to implement XMLLiteral correctly.

<josb> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-concepts/#section-XMLLiteral

<josb> http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-xmlschema-2-20010502/

<DaveReynolds> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/errata#rdf-concepts says Ivan is the editor of the errata document.

<scribe> ACTION: sandro to figure process for RDF errata (re: fixing rdf:xmlliteral) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-rif-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-664 - Figure process for RDF errata (re: fixing rdf:xmlliteral) [on Sandro Hawke - due 2008-12-02].

public comments

<csma> I did not progress on the RAK comment. Give me 'till Friday EOB.

liaisons

review actions

<csma> I can do the closing etc

<csma> yes

<csma> done

<josb> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/IRI_from_IRI

<AxelPolleres> continued

<csma> 592 is continued

<Hassan> ctd ...

<csma> that's a PRD TF action

TF updates

<Gary> what do we do with a rule: P(?x - ?y) :- P(?x + ?y)

<DaveReynolds> Gary - that rule would be unsafe by the current criteria.

UCR

*PROPOSED:* Include in UCR new requirement "Internationalized text: RIF must support internationalized text - that is, text that additionally conveys information in terms of a language tag."

PROPOSED: Include in UCR new requirement "Internationalized text: RIF must support internationalized text - that is, text that additionally conveys information in terms of a language tag."

other requirements: RIF must support inter-dialect interchange

other requirements: RIF must support intra-dialect interchange

other requirements: RIF must support intra-dialect interchange

*PROPOSED:* Include in UCR new requirement "Internationalized text: RIF must support internationalized text - that is, text that additionally conveys information in terms of a language tag."

PROPOSED: Include in UCR new requirement "Internationalized text: RIF must support internationalized text" - that is, text that additionally conveys information in terms of a language tag.

RESOLUTION: Include in UCR new requirement "Internationalized text: RIF must support internationalized text" - that is, text that additionally conveys information in terms of a language tag.

<StellaMitchell> the conclusion of UCR says:

<StellaMitchell> Developing criteria for understanding and managing RIF inter-dialect translations is not within the current phase of RIF working group activity.

<StellaMitchell> the CSF that was removed said: Encouragement of Interoperability: RIF will encourage interoperability, e.g., overlap between dialects and distinguished dialects with maximum overlap.

publication plan

<sandro> MediaWiki:Sidebar

<scribe> ACTION: sandro to look at CORE formatting problem [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-rif-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-665 - Look at CORE formatting problem [on Sandro Hawke - due 2008-12-02].

DTB

PROPOSED: * Add equal and not-equal builtins for string in DTB.
... Add equal and not-equal builtins for string in DTB.

RESOLUTION: Add equal and not-equal builtins for string in DTB.

<josb> 0

Jos abstains

<AxelPolleres> "Editor's Note: The need of separate equality, inequality, less-than, greater-than, less-than-or-equal, greater-than-or-equal predicates for strings is still under discussion, cf. ISSUE-67."

<AxelPolleres> Editor's Note: The need of separate less-than, greater-than, less-than-or-equal, greater-than-or-equal predicates for strings is still under discussion, cf. ISSUE-67.

ISSUE-79: Negative guards

<trackbot> ISSUE-79 Negative guards in DTB - is this another dialect? notes added

<AxelPolleres> As I understand, dropping neg guards is a problem for OWL-RL

<AxelPolleres> Dave?

<josb> we need them for embedding RIF-OWL DLP combinations (sec 8.2.3.2 of SWC) as well

<AxelPolleres> I likely wouldn't implement full equality... without, it is probably not an issue.

<DaveReynolds> I have a preference for keeping them to allow the OWL/RLtranslation to be expressed within Core.

http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Disjunctive_Information_from_Negative_Guards_1

<AxelPolleres> I don't see how this could affect core at the moment.

<josb> I can live with either option

ISSUE-80 [12] (Shoudl we extend DTB to include more general builtins)

<Harold> We could have parameterized dialect schemas, including a "DTB schema" with DTB(NG) being one instantiation (NG = Negative Guard).

<Harold> We already have the beginnings of this with the conformance clauses.

<sandro> AxelPolleres, Adrian is scribing off-line because he can't get on IRC.

<sandro> Wouldn't the parameterized versions replace the fixed ones?

<josb> I think the negative version is really asking for trouble

<josb> I think it's better to use a dialect with negation and use that negation

<AxelPolleres> +1 dialect with negation seems to be missing desparately, it could safe all these negative builtins

<AxelPolleres> pred:hasDatatype

<AxelPolleres> hasNotDatatype( ?X ?Y ) has no intended domain

<AxelPolleres> but neither has isNotInteger( ?X )

<AxelPolleres> for safe Externals, it hasNotDatatype doesn't seem to be less or more problematic than the existing ones.

<Harold> Maybe hasNotDatatype should be replaced with a RELATIVE complement, wrt a higher datatype in the type lattice.

<AxelPolleres> Harold, don't understand what you're after.

<StellaMitchell> pathalogical

<scribe> ACTION: jos to come up with problematic case for general type pred [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-rif-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - jos

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jdebruij2, jderoo)

ISSUE-67 [10] (need string predicates string-less-than, etc.)

<Gary> mild pref for string-less-than, for symmetry with numeric and date

<Michael_Kifer> 0

<AxelPolleres> "<" ">" "!=" ...

<AxelPolleres> "=" is still possibly troublesome for such a surface syntax?

<sandro> paschke@inf.fu-berlin.de

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: jos to come up with problematic case for general type pred [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-rif-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: sandro to figure process for RDF errata (re: fixing rdf:xmlliteral) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-rif-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: sandro to look at CORE formatting problem [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-rif-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2008/11/25 17:35:18 $

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No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: ChrisW
Found Scribe: Adrian Paschke
Default Present: Sandro, Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, josb, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, csma, StellaMitchell, Adrian, LeoraMorgenstern, Gary, +49.308.387.aaaa, Michael_Kifer, AxelPolleres, Harold
Present: Sandro Dave_Reynolds ChrisW josb Hassan_Ait-Kaci csma StellaMitchell Adrian LeoraMorgenstern Gary +49.308.387.aaaa Michael_Kifer AxelPolleres Harold
Regrets: ChanghaiKe PaulVincent
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Nov/0165.html
Got date from IRC log name: 25 Nov 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-rif-minutes.html
People with action items: jos sandro

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