Note: the agenda of the meeting for 23 and 24 of october 2008 can be found at: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2008/10f2f
<SUZETTE2> SLH: thanks for contributions of previous day, encouragements to do brainstorming on documents, will do more focussed work on teleconferences
<SUZETTE2> saz: Slideset is intended as a reusable resource and updatable to give status of project or ongoing work
<SUZETTE2> saz: informative for people who want to know what is happening.
<SUZETTE2> saz: call for comments on requirements specification on purpose, scope audience
<SUZETTE2> sl: can we pick things out to use in Swedish?
<SUZETTE2> saz: happy if they are translated into local language and even to host copies but need to note that this would be subject to changes
<SUZETTE2> slh: precedence is to give attribution to source material
<SUZETTE2> ms: some slides may need annotation to help people who are unfamiliar with the topic
<SUZETTE2> aa: wcag2.0 has extensive notes and these can be included
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - add attribution notes to the slides as per WCAG2 slideset [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action01]
<SUZETTE2> slh: can also maintain change log to help translators
<shawn> ACTION: andrew - slideset - add text about reuse eg <http://www.w3.org/WAI/presentations/WCAG20_about/#permission> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action02]
<SUZETTE2> saz: run through initial ideas - list from document
<SUZETTE2> saz: more to presentation itself
<shawn> ACTION: andrew - slideset - after initial publication, maintain thorough changelog and notify translators when updated, e.g., [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action03]
<SUZETTE2> saz: Press c to get an outline of contents - skip now to slide 3 "demographics"
<SUZETTE2> aa: This slide contains specifically uk demographics
<SUZETTE2> sd: asked about sources for other demographics
<SUZETTE2> aa: these are in the litterature search - next slide has uk/japan comparative graphs
<SUZETTE2> saz: found slide from (German presentation that had other figures
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - speaker notes on demographics - provide hints where to possibly look for local demog stats [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action04]
<SUZETTE2> ms: proposal to add useful figures
<SUZETTE2> saz: need to distinguish between ones you have added and ones from the resource set
<SUZETTE2> ms: source data should be elsewhere to heading
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - speaker notes - ensure stats sources are attributed [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action05]
<SUZETTE2> saz: should not remove source of the figures from slides
<SUZETTE2> saz: what about detailed level of information?
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - requs - audience - add bloggers, reporters to 2ndry audience [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action06]
<SUZETTE2> slh: need link to other figures - not go through many different sets of slides
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - consider adding country specific stats links in speakers notes where we have them [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action07]
<SUZETTE2> az: has expereince of using wai slides - but would expect to adapt and modify
<shawn> ACTION: andrew - slideset - after initial publication, maintain thorough changelog and notify translators when updated, e.g., <http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/changelogs/cl-components#changes> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action08]
<SUZETTE2> sd: why use Japan stats?
<SUZETTE2> aa: Japan has the most rapid change
<SUZETTE2> slh: this graph slide 4 is too complex
<SUZETTE2> aa: preference- sipmle graph or table
<SUZETTE2> slh: can get help to create her own
<shawn> several: yes, PICTUREs ... just simple ones! :)
<SUZETTE2> hs: pictures make people think - focus
<shawn> SK: talking to graphic designers and others who think visually, pictures good, "talks" to that type of audiences. others want table
<SUZETTE2> saz: not clear how Japan was relevant and for this project this image should be European focussed
<SUZETTE2> slh: image of 1:3 using picture of 3 people!
<SUZETTE2> az: Japan has the longest life span and the lowest birthrate
<SUZETTE2> saz: need to clarify the point of the slide
<SUZETTE2> sl: Do we have to achieve agreement?
<SUZETTE2> sl: would not use the presentation, would read adapt and make her own
<SUZETTE2> slh: however some people will use it as is - without adapting it so therefore needs consensus for those people]
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - demographics - try people blue and grey 2:1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action09]
<SUZETTE2> hs: slide 5 graphic is difficult
<SUZETTE2> aa: proposes to simplify it
<SUZETTE2> sd: needs some more notes, descriptions
<SUZETTE2> slh: can add notes
<SUZETTE2> aa: with graph intention to provide the figure perhaps elsewhere
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - demographics - ensure points of any graphs/tables is described well in speaker notes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action10]
<SUZETTE2> saz: slide 6
<SUZETTE2> az: eu countries are changing age of retirement - could give examples from different countries - either in slides or the notes
<SUZETTE2> saz: can be added to speaker notes
<SUZETTE2> az: need more words for the 'mouth of the speaker'
<SUZETTE2> sd: what is "health social networking"?
<SUZETTE2> saz: this is an error should be split in 2 bullets
<SUZETTE2> aa: contact with doctor
<SUZETTE2> aa: social networking: eg twitter, blogs
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw6 - notes - granny studying; retirement age is being raised in many countries; etc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action11]
<SUZETTE2> saz: reduce the list?
<SUZETTE2> slh: e-learning is missing
<shawn> ACTION: andrew - slideset - example of ways to put speakers notes and image/layout descriptions <http://www.w3.org/WAI/presentations/WCAG20_benefits/WCAG20_benefits.html> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action12]
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw6 - eParticipation is EC reserved; add eLearning [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action13]
<SUZETTE2> sd: queries relationship of heading eparticipation and sub-head of social networking
<SUZETTE2> saz: slide 7 ageing and impairments
<SUZETTE2> ms: need to split the bullets
<SUZETTE2> hs: difficult to understand the figures
<SUZETTE2> slh: how improtant are details of numbers
<SUZETTE2> hs: needs to be written differently so it is easier to understand
<SUZETTE2> saz: maybe %age first
<SUZETTE2> az: example of effect - eg of low vision - also why is cognitive missing
<SUZETTE2> hs: reinforces idea of multiple issues (if all on one slide)
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw7 - change to "16% of 65-74yrs"; split gps gps to 2 lines [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action14]
<SUZETTE2> aa: age group on 2 lines?
<SUZETTE2> saz: impact to come later
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw7 - remove lead in line "we experience ..." and add addw8 dementia bullet [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action15]
<SUZETTE2> saz: slide 8 a difficult group - dementia and cog. impairment
<shawn> - Mild is common
<shawn> - 1.4% of... dementia
<shawn> - x.x% ...
<SUZETTE2> slh: myth breaking slide 9
<SUZETTE2> hs: dislikes use of '!'
<SUZETTE2> sd: difficulty is explaining the differences - unable, or no computer or don't need
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw8 - keep MCI with slide 7; maybe make #7 semi-tabular (see WCAG2 slides) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action16]
<SUZETTE2> sd: queries rapid change
<SUZETTE2> sd: which is truth and which is myth
<SUZETTE2> saz: slide 10 describes wai age project
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw9 - Myths followed by "Truth" and some bullets; (consider adding some example date in speakers notes if available) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action17]
<SUZETTE2> saz: slide 11 literature search and types of studies - should we split studies from fiindings?
<SUZETTE2> hs: agrees to split
<shawn> ACTION: andrew - slideset - idea for the impairments slides: put on the first slide, a main bullet Cognitive with sub-bullet "..." then on the next slide, you collapse the others and expans the Congnitive (contact Shawn for an example of this if you'd like :) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action18]
<SUZETTE2> sk: remember to look at font size please
<SUZETTE2> saz: slide 12 first of several findings
<SUZETTE2> hs: do these have a theme?
<SUZETTE2> saz: not that easy to categorize!
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw11 - split to two slides - types of studies; findings [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action19]
<SUZETTE2> saz: could consider reflecting themes in titles
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw12 to 14 add a topic to heading [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action20]
<SUZETTE2> sl: not to do with age but experience on the internet
<SUZETTE2> slh: need strategy for selection - biggest impact...
<SUZETTE2> sd: different categories of findings - one or multiple, older people and new technology,
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw12 "wary of downloads and plugins" consider moving to slide on experience; user interface, web apps, other changes, [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action21]
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw12 "wary of downloads" - consider removing, or addiing situational examples (eg from Suzette) - beware that we don't perpetuate it as a myth [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action22]
<SUZETTE2> sd: also problems of using AT not just of ageing but general reluctance to admit changes occuring
<SUZETTE2> saz: slide 13
<SUZETTE2> sd: what does predictability, consistency and tolerance mean?
<SUZETTE2> aa: explains, meeting expectations
<SUZETTE2> saz: needs better language or speaker notes
<SUZETTE2> sd: People listening to and looking at the presentation need to leave the room knowing what it all means
<SUZETTE2> az: gets more difficult as it gets down
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw13 - 4th bullet needs more clarity for take home message (possibly separate) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action23]
<Zakim> SUZETTE, you wanted to say object to most
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to suggest cutting text - e.g., "Most requirements identified for the elderly overlap with those for people with disabilities:" -- "Requirements overlap for
<SUZETTE2> slh: take the sentence at the top of the findings slides and rework as subheads
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw13 - Most > Many (as not dealing with other cultural etc issues); slh suggestion "Requirements overlap for elderly and for people with disabilities:" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action24]
<SUZETTE2> sk: previously: most only applies to WCAG context - older people have different culture, values, experiences that are outside the scope. Therfore use many
<SUZETTE2> slh: agree to break for coffee and plan for next session
<SUZETTE2> saz: Welcome back from break
<SUZETTE2> saz: slide 13 recap needs to regroup findings and reflect in heading, wcag2 is supposed to be the punch line
<SUZETTE2> saz: slide 14 some findings could feed back into other WCAG groups - have to feed into discussions with other groups
<SUZETTE2> ms: justification (type) is it included
<SUZETTE2> aa: only full justification is currently mentioned as a technique
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw14 - clarify heading (instead of intro sentence) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action25]
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw15 - consider adding downloads here in the same language as used in bullets 1-3? (appear reluctant to accept downloads)? [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action26]
<SUZETTE2> saz: slide 15 any other observations?
<SUZETTE2> sd: not clue who is concerned in each bullet point
<SUZETTE2> aa: is what they observed/surmised
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw15 - consider moving hearing to a previous slide dealing with sensory impairment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action27]
<SUZETTE2> wl: comment on validity only reprort findings from literature survey
<SUZETTE2> saz: slide 16 next steps
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw16 - change WCAG/UAAG to "W3C work" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action28]
<SUZETTE2> saz: slide 17 documents for revision lists 5xdocs to be developed over next ? period
<SUZETTE2> saz: is more status info needed
<SUZETTE2> aa: wondering where to link to and versioning/status
<SUZETTE2> slh: change log then published version - show draft
<SUZETTE2> az: why is this needed
<SUZETTE2> slh: is this what the user needs (this is project structure information - what's useful to who)
<SUZETTE2> saz: helped to get people to volunteer to help with the preparation of these docs
<SUZETTE2> az: then need to change title to ask for help
<SUZETTE2> wl: no pre-membering of what is next
<SUZETTE2> saz: link to where
<SUZETTE2> saz: eg london audience interested in work on business case - interesting for people to hear what is next - describe in speaker notes that this depends on audience
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw17-18 consider having the detailed docs as optional slides and described appropriately in notes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action29]
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw16 - title - Next steps for WAI-AGE Project [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action30]
<shawn> ACTION: andrew - slideset - link to the WAI-AGE deliverables page (and not the individual old drafts or new drafts) (and in the deliverables page, add links to old versions and requirements/changelogs) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action31]
<SUZETTE2> saz: slide 18 new documents - (no comments made)
<SUZETTE2> saz: participation welcome slide 19
<SUZETTE2> hs: where to go do this thing
<SUZETTE2> hs: contact info here not next sllide
<SUZETTE2> wl: how to arrange link - eg if slides viewed direct vs as part of presentation
<SUZETTE2> slh: take out plans for comment on next steps
<SUZETTE2> hs: where to go to participate
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw19 - add contact info or URL or participation page; drop Bullet 2; drop bullet 4 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action32]
<SUZETTE2> saz: point on task force to drop,
<SUZETTE2> slh: keep comment on literature review kept separate
<SUZETTE2> saz: slide 20 research welcome - identifies gaps to address
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - addw20 - add MCI/cognitive [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action33]
<SUZETTE2> saz: there are many overlaps with wai but need for more information, and need to add cognitive
<SUZETTE2> aa: need to control size of fp6 logo
<SUZETTE2> saz: back to overview, what is missing and does it work together?
<SUZETTE2> sk: add people picture
<SUZETTE2> hs: need to clean up slide and remove branding
<SUZETTE2> slh: yes do not want people presenting on behalf on w3c
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - add some people pictures [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action34]
<SUZETTE2> saz: title
<SUZETTE2> slh: title is not representing the content
<shawn> ACTION: andrew - slideset - change "the Ageing " in the title (and throughout) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action35]
<SUZETTE2> saz: switch back to consider approach, will brainstorm later?
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - remove W3C branding so they can be reused by others [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action36]
<shawn> Web Accessibility for Older Users
<SUZETTE2> wl: is about exploding/ exposure to the myths
<SUZETTE2> bim: the truth about older users..
<andrew> ACTION: andrew - slideset - title ideas - web accessibility for older users; [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action37]
<SUZETTE2> saz: thank you for patience and work on this - many action comments for Andrew
<SUZETTE2> slh: to introduce
slh: want to do a run-through of the documents we have, some are new some are drafts
Follow some notes from the brainstorming that took place outside of the meeting room about the topic.
Looking for where to start; where to find stuff. might jump into detail and look for technique while working.
When is it available?
What are the main differences between 1.0 and 2.0?
what is conformance now - what has changed; what do I need to do?
Need something for non-developers - 'wcag for dummies'
People new to wcag - 'wcag virgins' developers; students; teachers
how much effort for transition? - but still need an entry point for the experienced who are transitioning - 'want to move on to wcag 2?' make the entry point friendly (possible retitling of transition doc )
Website owner (project manager) - want to know about compliance level; work with 1.0 or 2.0; what is accessibility - just the html template or more?
Educators as an audience
researchers as an audience
pwd as an audience
developers as self-learners (good translations imnportant too)
graphical designers; info architects;
dan rubin - graphical designer)
policy makers (smaller group) - need intro to incorporating web accessibility into policies
suzette: summing up the last discussion
include experienced web-developers as well as the ones new to accessibility
including: user-advocates, organisations
SLH: the announcement of WCAG 2.0 will increase the interest in transition documents and documents in general
JB: date of annoucement can not be defined exactly, but it might be by the end of the year
SLH: another updated information
is expected in November
... we will focus now on the transitional documents
... we want to organise the documents from different perpectives / scenarios
... a draft of the documents can be expected in nov 08
HS: love the print one in all
<scribe> ACTION: shawn consider option to print all wcag 2 eo material [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action38]
MS: moving from WCAG 1 to WCAG 2 might be difficult for people familiar with WCAG 1
SLH: discussion http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/changelogs/cl-transition1to2
... link to the actual draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/transition1to2/policies
... back to the requirements
... Comments on purpose, goals and objectives
... comments on goals
<scribe> ACTION: Shawn change reference to baseline [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action39]
<scribe> ACTION: Shawn add to goals: "Pitfals and Problems for updating a conforming WCAG 1 Website to a conforming WCAG 2 web site" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action40]
<iheni> ACTION: shawn add question "Is WCAG 1.0 now not valid?" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action41]
<scribe> ACTION: Shawn add to goals: "Do I have to move to WCAG 2, when do i have to ..." [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action42]
SK: consider the policy the relation to last question
<SUZETTE2> scenario for this policy question is if you are a policy setter eg mandate 376/ government level
SLH: we are currently looking at requirements for the complete transition suite
<shawn> JB: policy person said interested in business case for switching to WCAG 2.0 (not interested in strategies)
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say about "Research welcome"
<shawn> ACTION: shawn - tell andrew about "research welcome" comment on wai age slides [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action43]
JB: some countries don't want to
open a policy discussion. but they can say: you can conform to
WCAG 1 by WCAG 2
... provide options to handle different situations governments are in
HS: it is important to address the governments
JB: multinationals might have different requirements from different (national) policies
AN: is there any W3C requirement to move on to WCAG 2 at a certain time
JB: W3C will keep WCAG 1 for a long time as a standard, but will recommend to move to the newer one
<scribe> ACTION: shawn answer the question if I comply to WCAG 2 AA, do i comply to WCAG 1 AA (or vice versa). Short answer: no [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action44]
JB: lets talk about format
... we should consider a different format for the policy transition section.
... thinking of 2 print paper - more appropriate for policy makers
... also the organisation of the documents might be different to the rest of the documents
... try not to repeat other ressources. but include some policy issues that might come up
SLH: lets shift to the policy
... looking at the specific audience
... currently very broad
<LisaP> JB: 3 audiences for Transitioning Policy
<LisaP> 1: Using 1, moving to 2
<LisaP> 2nd Orgs using OTHER web acc. standard and want to move to 2; may be BIGGEST
<LisaP> 3rd: Orgs using MIX --
<LisaP> 4th: Orgs using another WRT accessibility
<LisaP> (4 actually)
<LisaP> JB: Then set of situations: timing
<LisaP> Situation 1: Able to put policy in place whenever want; 2: not able to for 1-2 years from now;
<LisaP> Need to provide tools, argument, rationale to make case for adopting 2.0
<LisaP> May want to aimfront of doc accordingly
WL: I don't think we should address individuals and their individual policies
JB: that's a different
... in the states 1/3 required WCAG 1, 1/3 required 508, 1/3 required mix
SLH: we have documents to develop
policies for those who do not have one yet
... any thoughts on focussing from 1.0 to 2.0?
LP: we have very good information
on how to develop policies
... we need a roadmap document to transition
... another for strategies from other standards (incl. wcag 1) to WCAG 2
... we need a mapping document for the different standards (eg 508 to wcag 2.0)
<shawn> judy: thinks sections should include what you are currently using; what situation you're in wrt being able to create new and/or update existing policies; sample policy language for the various combination of approaches; and pointers to all the relevant info (business case; mapping; etc)
<shawn> ACTION: shawn - consider revising implementing polilicies to cover WCAG 2.0 transition, and not do new (talk to Lisa) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action45]
JB: we do not need necessarily a new document. we could revise the current one including the different situations
<LisaP> ACTION: LisaP Work with Judy on language for orgs whose policy spells out 1.0 but who want to move to 2.0 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action46]
SLH: do we need to differentiate between diffferent kinds of organisations?
HS: my feeling is: UK gov needs support
LP: governments are slower,
Universities might be much faster. -> different time
... three groups: governments (by legislation), universities, private organisations. all might be influenced by law
JB: it might be ok to say
organisations, but you have to list those, they might follow
... breaking them out into different sections might not get the message through
... having example might be very helpful for some people. other need a lot of consultations.
... a good document might help
LP: will add subsections for different organisations in different situations
<LisaP> ACTION: LisaP Update existing Policy doc, adding sections for the different orgs' situations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-eo-minutes.html#action47]
JB: we might blend the document with "development of organisational policies"
back to the old topic
LP: what are the policy related questions in your organisations?
SL: most customers don't have a policy. most of them hate to have policies
HS: e-commerce sites, supermarkets, do we start now? when do we start?
<shawn> MS: our customers usually listen to what we say to do. some Austrian laws refer to WCAG 1. our customers usually follow 2.0 if we recommend it
<shawn> jb: do you recommend to customer that they put a policy on their website
<shawn> MS: depends
<shawn> ... usually not read by anybody
<shawn> ... instead want to have a text size widget on thier site to show that they are accessible
LP: many want to know about policy
SL: our customers are happy with a certificate
JB: people with disabilities do read statements of accessibility
<shawn> Sharron Rush: Knowbility
SLH: it's about authoring tool accessibility, ATAG is just an aspect
WL: we need a place where people can go and ask, the vendors can not say they are compliant
SLH: w3c is a vendor independent org. but W3C has published a list with tools that are compliant
HS: we have no supporting
... for ATAG
AZ: we need educational material
SLH: we have a lot of material for
... do we need that for ATAG?
SAZ: Is it better to spend the time addressing the developers or the managers to enforce procurement
HS: there is a beginning awareness. it would help developers to implement accessibility.
AA: a lot of people don't even think about the issue
<SUZETTE2> michael: maybe we could address developers better through workshops - more than documents
<shawn> ... open source
<SUZETTE2> michael: many of these tools are open source (not proprietory)
WL: we have to talk to tools of the tools and the developers implementing the tools
<shawn> [note to shawn -- customizing a CMS (note TP session...]
HS: we need ressources to support our effort
AA: the standard-groups might be good to approach the developers
SL: two different aspects: the
developers and the customers
... the accessibility of the backend is not a topic according to her experience
SLH: the WAI domain agreed that there is more than WCAG. but we are missing the hook for ATAG.
HS: interface between WCAG and ATAG is user generated content
SAZ: different kind of messages,
arguments for (big) CMS and user generated content tools
... the requirements are very different for the different customers
<shawn> ms: not different type of customers make the difference. the difference is accessible output or tool itself accessible
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask if Henny or Bim have parting words...
<SUZETTE2> ms: biggest problem is on developers side
HS: we need more material promoting ATAG
AA: what is the key-hook or the key business reason - that might be the hook (eg. video)
slh: need some egs of how an ATAG cms can make their life easier in general
jk: rich text editors not creating accessible content
ms: and the plugins
<Sylvie> Andrew: some things that would be easy to implement are the insertion of alt text.
<shawn> ... if paragraph less than 6 words, ask if it it's a heading
<SUZETTE2> ms: make the output dependent on implementer should use the templates given
<SUZETTE2> ms: a lot of java script coming in from cms - not done in accessible way
<SUZETTE2> saz: what kind of outreach activities?
<SUZETTE2> slh: not a lot of ideas yet
<SUZETTE2> saz: ref henny's example -need lighter weight articles c/f CAPTCHA
<SUZETTE2> ms: idea of blog is good - but impossible!
<SUZETTE2> wl: the features causing most trouble: do not trust 'export as html' this is way trouble occurs
<SUZETTE2> saz: people don't know what they are exporting
<SUZETTE2> slh: this was helpful brainstorm will come back to it later
<SUZETTE2> sl: query about EU action
<SUZETTE2_> saz: EC level there is mention of them - memberstates agreed to meet WCAG level; ATAG had very litle mention
ms: ICCHP speaker said there is some doc in prep for procurement at EU level?
saz: no - wcag is mentioned, not atag
sk: mandate is meant to be broad - if ATAG not mentioned, is it a lack of awareness?
saz: output is considered, backend is against WCAG (if web-based) or ISO (for software)
sk: need to push ATAG as a means to achieving WCAG conformance
slh: following ATAG helps ensure the tool is easier to use and works, but still need knowledge and skill for developer
lp: and they can still put in
blank alt text when asked to complete that field
... will we focus more on this early 2009?
... really important in higher education where many untrainined authors are putting material online
... this is really important for WAI and EO
slh: we should look at it in
conjunction withy WAI annuncements in the near future
... balancing messaging with workload - priorities