SVG Working Group Teleconference -- 14 Oct 2008

<trackbot> Date: 14 October 2008

<scribe> scribe: anthony

<ChrisL> just coming, finishing up discussion with r12a

<aemmons> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0105.html

<aemmons> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0104.html

Marathon Telephone Conferences

AE: There was a request for Marathon Telephone Conferences

DS: What about tomorrow night?

AG: I'll probably be a bit late

NH: I'll probably be late as well

DS: What about Thursday?

CL: Can't really make Thursday

DS: We can do multiple ones

CL: Yes why don't we do that

<ChrisL> Can make some of Thusday but has a lot of conflicts

CL: I can sign on for Wed

<ChrisL> I can sign on for weds all day

NH: Can make tomorrow afternoon

CL: 10 - 6 Europe time

DS: Why don't we schedule tomorrow
... and see how we go
... if not we can go again Thursday

AE: Someone will need to email with the details

CL: So it will be 4am to 1pm Eastern

DS: I doubt I'll be able to make it that early

<ChrisL> Its fine, you can join later i have to leave early thursday

<ChrisL> 10am to 18:00 europe

<ChrisL> 4 to 12 EST

<ChrisL> 7pm to 3am for Sydney :(

Implementation Progress

<ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0042.html

<shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/results/TestFestOttawa.html

DS: Ed and I agreed it would be best to do the table

<ed_> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/results/TestFestTPAC-atrisk-verify.html

ED: I checked in a separate file with all the at risk test cases
... and that's the table I've been updating
... I'll probably be making more changes to the table
... but we need to discuss test first
... blue on the table means that someone was given an action to implement
... the ones that are marked in Grey are not at risk anymore

<ChrisL> text-align-202-t.svg

CL: I can discuss text-align-202-t.svg
... I had an action to remove the direction attribute
... It was raised on SVG 1.1 it had to be set on every element
... so if you have Arabic you could set it an off you go
... I still do have to update the RelaxNG

ED: It's inherited so it's not a problem for us

<ChrisL> will add to svg and g elements as well as text elements

DS: As an author I do that sort of thing all the time

<ChrisL> so do I

DS: I'll typically put the font-family on a root knowing it only applies to text elements and not shapes

<ChrisL> Abbra expects to have the unicode bidi done in time

<scribe> ACTION: Chris to Add direction to the RelaxNG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2291 - Add direction to the RelaxNG [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-21].

<ChrisL> Opera just added it

<ChrisL> Inkscape passes

CL: Inkscape passes it

DS: Should talk to Motorola for some of these

ED: So far there hasn't been any updates to the table
... still haven't seen any

NH: Haven't done anything yet

<ed_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/results/TestFestTPAC-atrisk-verify.html shows no updates yet

LM: I can send an email with the updates

ED: I have one test that I'd like to discuss

<ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0116.html

LM: We'll pass linking-frag-203, styling-inherit-03, media-video-215

DS: That will bring it down to 15

ED: udom-svg-224
... and that test
... is expecting the wrong exception type
... the test seems to be expecting not supported error
... the spec seems to need an update and it is also using invalid
... I propose to change the spec
... invalid access error
... I'd be ok with having both in error and unsupported values covered (if error still exists)

<ed_> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/publish/svgudom.html#svg__TraitAccess

ED: It's in the last sentence in that paragraph

CL: Sounds good to me
... we generally got away from the idea of in error

ED: I also have all the changes to the tests ready to commit
... it's mostly editorial
... no changes that affect the tests

LM: You'll be changing the test criteria
... ?

ED: [goes through changes]

CL: Sounds good to me

ED: There is a test there called udom-svg-220
... it's not at risk
... but I'm not sure about it

LM: Concern about the change with udom-svg-224

ED: I think it's low risk for you, I don't think you'll fail it

AE: I'd say the we should be careful of the changes
... we should probably go ahead with it

ED: I can do the changes and send the email out
... to give people a chance to test

AE: I'd encourage implementations to test on as soon as possible

NH: I have a question about media-audio-215
... it's about clamping audio level

<ed_> ACTION: ed to update udom-svg-220 and 224 and the spec as indicated in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0116.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2292 - Update udom-svg-220 and 224 and the spec as indicated in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0116.html [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-10-21].

NH: usually with clamping you clamp as late as possible
... the test expects to clamp 2 and multiple by 0.5
... which is 0.5
... but we multiple 2 by 0.5 then clamp it

CL: If the clamping is done as a last step then it shouldn't matter the order the
... terms are multiplied

NH: The test expects you clamp at each step

CL: What does the spec say/

NH: Doesn't say

CL: It seems to me that there would be a loss of functionality
... so if you have a group around so you could only decrease

DS: If we change this would that make bitflash not pass?

NH: Maybe
... We should clarify the spec

AG: We've done this already twice

AE: Niklas can you send an email to clarify your thoughts

<ChrisL> it looks as if the spec isd not clear about early clamping for audio

CL: I'm about to edit that one as agreed
... it currently has the direction property on it
... so I'm taking it out again
... having it there doesn't change anything

DS: Is that something Abbra is going to pass (text-align-202)?
... media-audio-206 they could work on
... and that would help
... udom-209/215

AE: Do we have sufficient coverage?
... for example constrained transforms may need some work

<scribe> ACTION: Erik to Add constrained transform tests to the table [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2293 - Add constrained transform tests to the table [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-10-21].

AE: I guess I could go through the raw spreadsheet, but that was the only red flag holding us up
... we may have interoperability problems if we let constrained transforms go

Last Call Comments

<aemmons> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/raised

ISSUE-2082

ISSUE-2082?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2082 -- attributeType auto -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2082

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Oct/0111.html

DS: Can move to the next one this is pretty involved

ISSUE-2073

ISSUE-2073?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2073 -- inverse and constrained transformations -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2073

AG: Got a response with better wording

DS: I think it's fine

ISSUE-2080

ISSUE-2080?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2080 -- Clarify focusable=auto -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2080

ED: I added the text to the spec
... just pending review form Ikivo

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2093

ISSUE-2093

ISSUE-2093?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2093 -- 16.2.9 by 'identity' -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2093

DS: It is a bit unclear what he is asking for

AG: I'm not sure

DS: I'm think he wants us to add what the identity value for types

CL: I think we did get around this
... by saying the starting 0 is the one that has no effect
... it's the value that doesn't do anything
... if you multiply an RGB colour by 0 you get the same result
... basically list all of them out
... we could use identity and see what he says
... he quotes the wording form the SMIL spec
... we could stick that exact wording in there
... and then quote the identity matrix

DS: We could stick in what he's got there
... which gives examples

RESOLUTION: Clarify by values of 0

<scribe> ACTION: Chris to Reply to Dr. Hoffmann regarding ISSUE-2093 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2296 - Reply to Dr. Hoffmann regarding ISSUE-2093 [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-21].

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2121

ISSUE-2121

DS: I seem to recall we decided to leave the reference to elliptical arcs in

CL: In this case I don't see a problem with removing this
... because it doesn't add much
... we could add an example
... I think removing the parenthetical is ok

DS: Would we be removing too much information then?
... we could just comment it out and say use this for full

CL: I've got the spec open and I can do it now

DS: Do you want to respond him

<scribe> ACTION: Chris to Respond to Helder regarding the change on ISSUE-2121 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2297 - Respond to Helder regarding the change on ISSUE-2121 [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-21].

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2126

ISSUE-2126

DS: Easy to discuss, but lengthy to accomplish

<scribe> ACTION: Emmons to Add lacuna wording for attribute definitions regarding ISSUE-2126 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2298 - Add lacuna wording for attribute definitions regarding ISSUE-2126 [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-10-21].

<ChrisL> close action-2297

<trackbot> ACTION-2297 Respond to Helder regarding the change on ISSUE-2121 closed

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2129

ISSUE-2129

DS: I think it might be worth splitting it out to the coords and viewBox chapter
... and have a small definition
... he explains what basically needs to be done

<scribe> ACTION: Anthony to Make edits to split out bounding box definition regarding ISSUE-2129 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2299 - Make edits to split out bounding box definition regarding ISSUE-2129 [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-10-21].

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2130

ISSUE-2130

DS: Skip this one for now

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2131

ISSUE-2131

DS: Simple typo

<scribe> ACTION: Anthony to Fix the typo in the spec regarding ISSUE-2131 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2300 - Fix the typo in the spec regarding ISSUE-2131 [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-10-21].

ISSUE-2130

CL: The first one
... is to explain NC name
... the second is simple and obvious
... provide an example
... the first two are trivial
... it's not clear where we make the attribute table from

ED: Schema I think

DS: You mean the attribute table in the appendix?

CL: If you look at the master it's empty

ED: I know for a fact it pulls out things from the schema for whether attributes&props are animatable

DS: There is an attribute table and an attribute table template

CL: I only see attribute table in published

DS: I see an attribute table in master

CL: Maybe created by a script?

<ed_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/master/attributeTable-template.html

<shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/publish/attributeTable.html

CL: Could've lost a change

ED: If you changed the schema then it would be correct

<ChrisL> list-of-string does not appear in tools/tables/makeTable.pl

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2125

DS: I found ListOfString

<ChrisL> In the perl I see String => 'string'

<ChrisL> wonder about adding Strings => 'list-ofstring'

<ChrisL> wonder about adding Strings => 'list-ofstrings'

<ed_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/master/relaxng/datatypes.rng.diff?r1=1.18&r2=1.19&f=h

CL: I wounder if that change will be ok
... ok so it's in the RNG

DS: in the prose we call it list-of-strings
... Wondering if was adding a temporary version

<scribe> ACTION: Chris to Propose wording for ISSUE-2130 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action09]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2301 - Propose wording for ISSUE-2130 [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-21].

<ChrisL> so in the end, was it ListOfStrings with an S that we wanted it to be?

<ed_> list-of-strings in the attributetable I believe, but ListOfStrings in the schema?

<ChrisL> ok. schema currently has ListOfString

<ChrisL> I will change that (all occurences)

- DRAFT -

SVG Working Group Teleconference

14 Oct 2008

Attendees

Contents

Marathon Telephone Conferences

Implementation Progress

Last Call Comments

ISSUE-2082

ISSUE-2073

ISSUE-2080

ISSUE-2093

ISSUE-2121

ISSUE-2126

ISSUE-2129

ISSUE-2130

ISSUE-2131

ISSUE-2130

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output