<csma> Meeting

<csma> Ooops

<ChrisW> Christian de Sainte Marie

<ChrisW> did yuou get a scribe?

<csma> scribe: Gary Hallmark

<Hassan> Thanks Gary! :-)

<csma> scribenick: GaryHallmark

<csma> agendum admin

<csma> next item

<csma> next item

Liason

csma: PRR rechartered

<ChrisW> who is csma.a? (or csma)?

<ChanghaiKe> Hi, I'm Changhai

<csma> next item

Public comments

<Gary> ScribeNick: Gary

chrisw: pls check over Chris' responses to public comments

<Harold> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Response_to_OK

harold: seeks feedback on adding common logic references

Chrisw: common logic community doesn't care so much for BLD
... not politics, just "scientific" disagreement

csma: is it possible to map BLD to CL?

chrisw: we welcome help from CL community to do so

<csma> next item

Action review

(procedural issues discerning closed actions from F2F minutes)

s/actions and issues/actions

<AxelPolleres> continued

dates for F2F12 in Portland, OR, US: Jan 8,9 or Jan 15,16 2009 (both Thurs, Fri)

(other dates possible - at the moment only Tuesdays are bad)

<sandro> Then please include Wednesdays, Gary....

<sandro> and give at least one more week, I think.

<sandro> ChrisW, I've fixed the various formal scribe problems in Day 2, so the minutes are pretty, even if they might still be wrong, etc.

ok, I'll need to pencil those in first -- will send email later today

<AxelPolleres> continued

<sandro> thanks, Gary

<AxelPolleres> continued

Axel: only strict safety need be defined

harold: weak safety now obsolete

axel: weak safety has some advantages, but harder to specify, so we drop it

hassan: XML<->PS translator work on hold now

harold: current translator uses old XML syntax

hassan: will update to latest pending agreement on some emailed issues

<Harold> The BLD LC PS frontend of Hassan's current tool is fine.

<Harold> The backend still is pre-LC.

<Harold> <side> is still wrongly used instead of <left>, <right>.

<sandro> Yes, of course we CAN do keyword-by-keyword improvements. Iterative design works damn well.

hassan: hopes to do new release by week's end

csma: all please email hassan with any issues

<Harold> Stella already translated http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Factorial_Functional

F2F11 debrief

<Hassan> Sandro: my point was not against iterative design (thanks for explaining though!) - it was about distracting the implementation effort from focusing on importing decisions

<Hassan> how much?

and it was the best steak ever!

<csma> 450

<ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2008-09-26

chrisw: recaps F2F11 highlights
... accepted many test cases
... delay next UCR WD
... add usage for rdf:text for i18n
... drop roundtripping paragraph
... metadata should be preserved where possible
... no formal definition of profiles
... all RIF dialects SHOULD extend Core

<sandro> csma: quoting RFC-2119: 3. SHOULD This word, or the adjective "RECOMMENDED", mean that there

<sandro> may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to ignore a

<sandro> particular item, but the full implications must be understood and

<sandro> carefully weighed before choosing a different course.

chrisw: external data model discussion led to some actions to propose a strawman
... discuss semantics of PRD conditions - should simplify by using more from the semantic structure
... external frames - increased understanding but didn't change anything
... agreed on equality in condition in Core, other Core issues
... discussed possible External(ATOMIC)

<Hassan> Harold (and others regarding side/side vs. left/right): check out your email.

chrisw: parallel sessions for PRD and FLD

<ChrisW> sandro - http://www.w3.org/2008/09/27-fld-irc is not permitted

csma: recaps PRD breakout - no-repeat for conflict resolution

<ChanghaiKe> I have added: conflict resolution strategy could be additional XML tags, along with the rules. There can be several strategies like RETE, sequential, etc.

<sandro> fixed, Chris. I guess I'll paste it into F2F11-Day2 minutes?

<ChrisW> ok

csma: agreed on overall semantic framework but the details seem to vary by engine
... but at least we can start to attack the details

Changhai: we need syntax to specify the conflict resolution

ChrisW: recaps FLD breakout
... add modules

I seem to recall MK will add aggregates to FLD

ChrisW: bug fix with defn of entailment
... negative guards permit entailment of disjunctive info

<josb> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Disjunctive_Information_from_Negative_Guards

<csma> Gary: aggregates are something we agreed we would take some times to discuss during F2F11, but we could not find the time

ChrisW: will be more discussion about negative guards
... addressed some DTB editors notes

csma: PRD breakout on actions
... 3 proposals for Do (?var), New, Retract/Remove/Erase object
... doc plans
... PRD, DTB, BLD, FLD - frozen in 1 month
... need DTB to LC before BLD to CR

for more detail on F2F11, please see minutes - available now

<ChrisW> +1 adjourn

<josb> +1 adjourn :)

<ChrisW> what is this thing he calls documentation?

<Hassan> ChrisW: :-P

<DaveReynolds> bye

<ChanghaiKe> bye

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

FAILED: s/actions and issues/actions/
Succeeded: s/yoyr/your/
Found Scribe: Gary Hallmark
WARNING: No scribe lines found matching ScribeNick pattern: <Gary\ Hallmark> ...
Found ScribeNick: GaryHallmark
Found ScribeNick: Gary
ScribeNicks: GaryHallmark, Gary
Default Present: +39.047.101.aaaa, Hassan, Mike_Dean, josb, csma, ChrisW, Sandro, Gary, ChanghaiKe, AxelPolleres, Harold, DaveReynolds
Present: +39.047.101.aaaa Hassan Mike_Dean josb csma ChrisW Sandro Gary ChanghaiKe AxelPolleres Harold DaveReynolds
Regrets: LeoraMorgenstern MichaelKifer AdrianPaschke MohamedZergaoui
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Sep/0205.html
Got date from IRC log name: 30 Sep 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-rif-minutes.html
People with action items: