See also: IRC log
<csma> Meeting
<csma> Ooops
<ChrisW> Christian de Sainte Marie
<ChrisW> did yuou get a scribe?
<csma> scribe: Gary Hallmark
<Hassan> Thanks Gary! :-)
<csma> scribenick: GaryHallmark
<csma> agendum admin
<csma> next item
<csma> next item
csma: PRR rechartered
<ChrisW> who is csma.a? (or csma)?
<ChanghaiKe> Hi, I'm Changhai
<csma> next item
<Gary> ScribeNick: Gary
chrisw: pls check over Chris' responses to public comments
<Harold> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Response_to_OK
harold: seeks feedback on adding common logic references
Chrisw: common logic community
doesn't care so much for BLD
... not politics, just "scientific" disagreement
csma: is it possible to map BLD to CL?
chrisw: we welcome help from CL community to do so
<csma> next item
(procedural issues discerning closed actions from F2F minutes)
s/actions and issues/actions
<AxelPolleres> continued
dates for F2F12 in Portland, OR, US: Jan 8,9 or Jan 15,16 2009 (both Thurs, Fri)
(other dates possible - at the moment only Tuesdays are bad)
<sandro> Then please include Wednesdays, Gary....
<sandro> and give at least one more week, I think.
<sandro> ChrisW, I've fixed the various formal scribe problems in Day 2, so the minutes are pretty, even if they might still be wrong, etc.
ok, I'll need to pencil those in first -- will send email later today
<AxelPolleres> continued
<sandro> thanks, Gary
<AxelPolleres> continued
Axel: only strict safety need be defined
harold: weak safety now obsolete
axel: weak safety has some advantages, but harder to specify, so we drop it
hassan: XML<->PS translator work on hold now
harold: current translator uses old XML syntax
hassan: will update to latest pending agreement on some emailed issues
<Harold> The BLD LC PS frontend of Hassan's current tool is fine.
<Harold> The backend still is pre-LC.
<Harold> <side> is still wrongly used instead of <left>, <right>.
<sandro> Yes, of course we CAN do keyword-by-keyword improvements. Iterative design works damn well.
hassan: hopes to do new release by week's end
csma: all please email hassan with any issues
<Harold> Stella already translated http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Factorial_Functional
<Hassan> Sandro: my point was not against iterative design (thanks for explaining though!) - it was about distracting the implementation effort from focusing on importing decisions
<Hassan> how much?
and it was the best steak ever!
<csma> 450
<ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2008-09-26
chrisw: recaps F2F11
highlights
... accepted many test cases
... delay next UCR WD
... add usage for rdf:text for i18n
... drop roundtripping paragraph
... metadata should be preserved where possible
... no formal definition of profiles
... all RIF dialects SHOULD extend Core
<sandro> csma: quoting RFC-2119: 3. SHOULD This word, or the adjective "RECOMMENDED", mean that there
<sandro> may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to ignore a
<sandro> particular item, but the full implications must be understood and
<sandro> carefully weighed before choosing a different course.
chrisw: external data model
discussion led to some actions to propose a strawman
... discuss semantics of PRD conditions - should simplify by
using more from the semantic structure
... external frames - increased understanding but didn't change
anything
... agreed on equality in condition in Core, other Core
issues
... discussed possible External(ATOMIC)
<Hassan> Harold (and others regarding side/side vs. left/right): check out your email.
chrisw: parallel sessions for PRD and FLD
<ChrisW> sandro - http://www.w3.org/2008/09/27-fld-irc is not permitted
csma: recaps PRD breakout - no-repeat for conflict resolution
<ChanghaiKe> I have added: conflict resolution strategy could be additional XML tags, along with the rules. There can be several strategies like RETE, sequential, etc.
<sandro> fixed, Chris. I guess I'll paste it into F2F11-Day2 minutes?
<ChrisW> ok
csma: agreed on overall semantic
framework but the details seem to vary by engine
... but at least we can start to attack the details
Changhai: we need syntax to specify the conflict resolution
ChrisW: recaps FLD breakout
... add modules
I seem to recall MK will add aggregates to FLD
ChrisW: bug fix with defn of
entailment
... negative guards permit entailment of disjunctive info
<josb> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Disjunctive_Information_from_Negative_Guards
<csma> Gary: aggregates are something we agreed we would take some times to discuss during F2F11, but we could not find the time
ChrisW: will be more discussion
about negative guards
... addressed some DTB editors notes
csma: PRD breakout on
actions
... 3 proposals for Do (?var), New, Retract/Remove/Erase
object
... doc plans
... PRD, DTB, BLD, FLD - frozen in 1 month
... need DTB to LC before BLD to CR
for more detail on F2F11, please see minutes - available now
<ChrisW> +1 adjourn
<josb> +1 adjourn :)
<ChrisW> what is this thing he calls documentation?
<Hassan> ChrisW: :-P
<DaveReynolds> bye
<ChanghaiKe> bye
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) FAILED: s/actions and issues/actions/ Succeeded: s/yoyr/your/ Found Scribe: Gary Hallmark WARNING: No scribe lines found matching ScribeNick pattern: <Gary\ Hallmark> ... Found ScribeNick: GaryHallmark Found ScribeNick: Gary ScribeNicks: GaryHallmark, Gary Default Present: +39.047.101.aaaa, Hassan, Mike_Dean, josb, csma, ChrisW, Sandro, Gary, ChanghaiKe, AxelPolleres, Harold, DaveReynolds Present: +39.047.101.aaaa Hassan Mike_Dean josb csma ChrisW Sandro Gary ChanghaiKe AxelPolleres Harold DaveReynolds Regrets: LeoraMorgenstern MichaelKifer AdrianPaschke MohamedZergaoui Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Sep/0205.html Got date from IRC log name: 30 Sep 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-rif-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]