Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference

New draft

<francois> draft version 1k

francois: everybody please review and send comments!
... it's not the candidate for last call yet but it is getting close

Quick pass on ACTIONS

<francois> opened actions

<francois> ACTION-614?

<trackbot> ACTION-614 -- Jo Rabin to restart discussion on the TAG finding (ISSUE-222) on the public mailing list -- due 2007-12-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/614

<francois> close ACTION-614

<trackbot> ACTION-614 Restart discussion on the TAG finding (ISSUE-222) on the public mailing list closed

<francois> ACTION-632?

<trackbot> ACTION-632 -- Bryan Sullivan to propose some recommendation on user-agent detection from a proxy and browser's (format) point of view -- due 2008-02-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/632

<francois> close ACTION-632

<trackbot> ACTION-632 Propose some recommendation on user-agent detection from a proxy and browser's (format) point of view closed

<francois> ACTION-673?

<trackbot> ACTION-673 -- Aaron Kemp to see if he can get some figures that scope the problem of bogus 200 responses -- due 2008-03-04 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/673

francois: still needs resolution from me

<francois> ACTION: daoust to ping Aaron on scoping bogus 200 responses [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-768 - Ping Aaron on scoping bogus 200 responses [on François Daoust - due 2008-06-17].

<francois> ACTION-678?

<trackbot> ACTION-678 -- Sean Patterson to raise and issue on the distinction between a CT proxy and (say) Opera Mini -- due 2008-03-10 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/678

<francois> Sean's thread

sean: replied by email yesterday

francois: leave the action open today so others can read the response

<francois> ACTION-680?

<trackbot> ACTION-680 -- Robert Finean to provide a pseudo-code example of form transformation for CT document. -- due 2008-03-10 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/680

<francois> close ACTION-680

<trackbot> ACTION-680 Provide a pseudo-code example of form transformation for CT document. closed

francois: the need for this illustration has passed

<francois> ACTION-703?

<trackbot> ACTION-703 -- Jo Rabin to draft a communication with the TAG based on ISSUE-222 -- due 2008-03-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/703

<francois> ACTION-706?

<trackbot> ACTION-706 -- Jo Rabin to reword 2.5.1 along the lines proposed by Francois -- due 2008-03-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/706

<francois> close ACTION-706

<trackbot> ACTION-706 Reword 2.5.1 along the lines proposed by Francois closed

francois: jo's done the rewording

<francois> ACTION-709?

<trackbot> ACTION-709 -- François Daoust to write some examples for 2.5.3 -- due 2008-03-18 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/709

<francois> close ACTION-709

<trackbot> ACTION-709 Write some examples for 2.5.3 closed

<francois> ACTION-710?

<trackbot> ACTION-710 -- François Daoust to test the Effect of HEAD Requests on Various Servers -- due 2008-03-13 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/710

francois: has done the analysis, not written the report

francois: conclusion is that a GET happens inside the server no matter that the HTTP request is a HEAD
... at end of 3.2.1 still have the option for persistent or semi-persistent options

<francois> ACTION-711?

<trackbot> ACTION-711 -- Soonho Lee to provide Feedback on Content Transformation Document -- due 2008-03-13 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/711

<francois> ACTION: daoust to ping Soonho on providing feedback [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-769 - Ping Soonho on providing feedback [on François Daoust - due 2008-06-17].

<francois> ACTION-723?

<trackbot> ACTION-723 -- François Daoust to raise discussion on session settings vs persistent settings for 2.5.1 and 2.5.3 -- due 2008-04-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/723

<francois> ACTION: jo to remove "semi-persistent" in 3.2.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-770 - Remove \"semi-persistent\" in 3.2.3 [on Jo Rabin - due 2008-06-17].

<francois> close ACTION-723

<trackbot> ACTION-723 Raise discussion on session settings vs persistent settings for 2.5.1 and 2.5.3 closed

<francois> ACTION-724?

<trackbot> ACTION-724 -- Jo Rabin to raise discussion on list as to clarification of 2.5.2 "In cases where user preferences contradict server preferences, server preferences prevail, except where the user specifically requires their preferences to over-rule those of the server." -- due 2008-04-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/724

<francois> ACTION-732?

<trackbot> ACTION-732 -- Jo Rabin to raise an issue on 4.4 of CT draft 1j noting that HTTPS links should only be rewritten with HTTPS links and not HTTP links -- due 2008-04-17 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/732

<francois> ACTION-735?

<trackbot> ACTION-735 -- François Daoust to raise discussion on the mailing-list and propose alternatives re linearization/zoom capabilities and the relation with CT-proxy -- due 2008-04-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/735

<francois> close ACTION-735

<trackbot> ACTION-735 Raise discussion on the mailing-list and propose alternatives re linearization/zoom capabilities and the relation with CT-proxy closed

<francois> ACTION-738?

<trackbot> ACTION-738 -- Jo Rabin to create text about transforming proxies generating valid documents and propose it in next draft -- due 2008-04-29 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/738

<hgerlach> +1

<francois> close ACTION-738

<trackbot> ACTION-738 Create text about transforming proxies generating valid documents and propose it in next draft closed

<francois> ACTION-740?

<trackbot> ACTION-740 -- Jo Rabin to find a way of crafting FD's text above and weaving it skillfully into the flow of the text -- due 2008-04-29 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/740

<francois> close ACTION-740

<trackbot> ACTION-740 Find a way of crafting FD's text above and weaving it skillfully into the flow of the text closed

<francois> ACTION-749?

<trackbot> ACTION-749 -- François Daoust to write to the XHR folks and point out a possible need to identify that a requst comes from script -- due 2008-05-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/749

<francois> close ACTION-749

<trackbot> ACTION-749 Write to the XHR folks and point out a possible need to identify that a requst comes from script closed

<francois> ACTION-752?

<trackbot> ACTION-752 -- Jo Rabin to propose text for the final part of 4.1.2 taking into account resolutions and discussion on this and the previous call -- due 2008-05-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/752

<francois> close ACTION-752

<trackbot> ACTION-752 Propose text for the final part of 4.1.2 taking into account resolutions and discussion on this and the previous call closed

<francois> ACTION-765?

<trackbot> ACTION-765 -- François Daoust to check on equivalence between an HTTP header and a META element in HTML pages -- due 2008-06-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/765

<francois> close ACTION-765

<trackbot> ACTION-765 Check on equivalence between an HTTP header and a META element in HTML pages closed

<hgerlach> +1

<francois> ACTION-766?

<trackbot> ACTION-766 -- Jo Rabin to add note describing the circumstances of choosing the X-Device prefix and explaining that it's not necessarily the actual device headers and other weasel words, yada yada -- due 2008-06-10 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/766

francois: that ends the actions review

Quick pass on Jo's points

<francois> Jo's points

<francois> http://www.w3.org/QA/glossary#N

<francois> Normative: Text in a specification which is prescriptive or contains conformance requirements.

<francois> http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20040205/#def-essential-requirements

<francois> 8.3. Definition of Normative, Optional and Informative

<francois> For purposes of this definition, the normative portions of the Recommendation shall be deemed to include only architectural and interoperability requirements. Optional features in the RFC 2119 [KEYWORDS] sense are considered normative unless they are specifically identified as informative. Implementation examples or any other material that merely illustrate the requirements of the Recommendation are informative, rather than normative.

francois: 1. proposal is to link to the 1st of these definitions

seanP: yes, 1st definition is preferred

<francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Use link to QA glossary for normative link (http://www.w3.org/QA/glossary#N)

+1

<francois> +1

<SeanP> +1

RESOLUTION: Use link to QA glossary for normative link (http://www.w3.org/QA/glossary#N)

francois: point D, heuristics for determining when a response with a 200 Status should be treated as a response with a 406 Status

SeanP: idea is to deal with legacy content

hgerlach: not as easy as it seems to reply with a HTTP 406 (handsets often display it as an "error" that frightens users)

<francois> ACTION: hgerlach to send a proposal on using meta data to alert CT-proxy that this is a rejected response even if it's a 200 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-771 - Send a proposal on using meta data to alert CT-proxy that this is a rejected response even if it's a 200 [on Heiko Gerlach - due 2008-06-17].

<francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: leave it up to CT-proxy vendors to determine when a response with a 200 Status is a rejected response

francois: want to leave it to CT-proxy vendors to decide how to deal with 200 OK responses
... that appear as 200 OK and a body containing the error message

+1

<francois> +1

<hgerlach> +1

<SeanP> +1

RESOLUTION: leave it up to CT-proxy vendors to determine when a response with a 200 Status is a rejected response

francois: point F, will address at F2F when Jo is present
... point G, text seems clear enough, support Jo in dropping this note

SeanP: agree, note doesn't really apply any more, is confusing and best dropped

<francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: drop the editorial note at the end of 4.3

<francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: drop the editorial note at the end of 4.3 and leave the text as it is

<francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: drop the editorial note at the end of 4.3 and leave the text as it is in 4.3

<francois> +1

+1

<SeanP> +1

RESOLUTION: drop the editorial note at the end of 4.3 and leave the text as it is in 4.3

francois: point H, wait for Jo and the F2F
... point I, we removed the guidelines on advertising ability to transform from CT-proxy in request to origin server
... so suggest renaming section
... and remove 1st bullet list in section
... Please send comments and we'll address at F2F next week

<francois> ISSUE-257 on 4.1.2

<hgerlach> thanks

Quick pass on ISSUES

<francois> Opened ISSUES

<francois> ISSUE-227?

<trackbot> ISSUE-227 -- How Useful will the CT Guidelines Doc be, without extensions to HTTP? -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/227

<francois> close ISSUE-227

francois: I think we've proved it is useful without HTTP extensions

<francois> ISSUE-238?

<trackbot> ISSUE-238 -- Use of Powder to "label" CT proxies and Server Preferences for CT -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/238

francois: don't want to *depend* on powder, but can say it's useful in future work

<jo> rrsagent draft minutes

jo, i couldn't understand that

<francois> Close ISSUE-238

<francois> ISSUE-241?

<trackbot> ISSUE-241 -- Tokenization of URIs -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/241

<jo> suggest we leave open and discuss further at f2f

rob: I haven't read the latest draft yet

<francois> ACTION: rob to review draft with ISSUE-241 in mind and see if some further actions are needed [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - rob

rob: the note was that a CT-proxy can create pages for events that don't have real HTTP proxy URLs

<jo> ACTION: finean to review draft with ISSUE-241 in mind and see if some further actions are needed [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-772 - Review draft with ISSUE-241 in mind and see if some further actions are needed [on Robert Finean - due 2008-06-17].

rob: for example, sub-page 2 or the page after a javascript event is triggered

<francois> ISSUE-242?

<trackbot> ISSUE-242 -- User expression of persistent and session preferences -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/242

<jo> I am worried about the whole idea of user preferences and persistence

<jo> I am particularly concerned that this can be used as a rationale e.g. for ignoring no-transfrom

<jo> can we leave the issue open?

<francois> ACTION: jo to send his concerns to the mailing-list re. ISSUE-242 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-773 - Send his concerns to the mailing-list re. ISSUE-242 [on Jo Rabin - due 2008-06-17].

<francois> ISSUE-243?

<trackbot> ISSUE-243 -- Can OPTIONS be used to determine Server Transformation Preferences and presentation options (via POWDER?) -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/243

<jo> suggest move to scope for future work

<francois> ACTION: daoust to check the OPTIONS method for ISSUE-243 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-774 - Check the OPTIONS method for ISSUE-243 [on François Daoust - due 2008-06-17].

<francois> ISSUE-244?

<trackbot> ISSUE-244 -- What can a Transforming Proxy infer from earlier interactions with a Server? -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/244

francois: don't have an explanation about what CT-proxy can infer

francois: suggest close issue and leave to vendors to innovate!

<jo> +1 to closing issue

<francois> close ISSUE-244

<francois> ISSUE-255?

<trackbot> ISSUE-255 -- Subdomain and Path as a heuristic in content transformation -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/255

<jo> [don't quite agree with FD]

<jo> [not if it is in a sequence of requests]

<jo> [which is where the whole session thing comes in]

<jo> suggest we leave this till F2F

<jo> should be allowed to change the headers if the reuqest is to a web site as part of a session

francois: yes, please note this for discussion at F2F

<jo> where the initial request had to have its headers modified

<SeanP> Agree.

<jo> +1 to announcing doc to group