<dsinger> that's me

<dbaron> I may have to leave at the half hour today.

<dsinger> what IS a ??P42 number?

<Arron> I think that is Saloni

<glazou> uuuh ?

<scribe> ScribeNick: fantasai

Charter

Peter: Sent out charter list yesterday.
... Got some feedback on Generated Content, Marquee
... Are there any modules people can't live without?

Jason: List coincides with AOL's direction

dbaron: A little upset that flexbox was dropped
... We have two prefixed implementations
... don't know if they are interoperable

Peter: I'm concerned that people don't think we will get anything to REC

fantasai: CSS Namespaces will go to REC. Selectors should be able to get there

dbaron: Color

howcome: Media Queries

dbaron: we have two implementations of that, soon to be three

Peter: CSS2.1?

fantasai: I wouldn't expect that. Good chance we won't make it to REC.

Jason: Requirements for PR?

fantasai: complete test suite, for each test 2 implementations that pass
... I think we'll have a better idea of where we are with the test suite at the end of this year
... not in time for the charter

peter: anything else?

dsinger: I need to consult with people here at Apple wrt animations and transitions

and transformations

howcome: I think MultiCol is ready

fantasai: It needs work. Some parts are underdefined. I have some comments on that, can help
... We should be able to get it to CR soon, though
... And if we can get together resources for a test suite, to REC within 2 years

peter: Anything we can't get to CR?

fantasai: Text and Text Layout
... CR for those would be very ambitious... Paul and I don't have time to work on them this year

<dsinger> I keep wanting to know, for each module, who the primary proponent is, and who responded to the survey saying that they could put resources on it...is that list available?

peter: Paged Media?

fantasai: CR this year
... HP is working on a test suite, so shouldn't have a problem there
... Will need implementations. We should have implementations for all features soon
... but the older drafts had many things underspecified, and we fixed those up

<dbaron> I have a conflicting meeting now (hopefully only this week, although maybe next week too). I'll still be on IRC.

fantasai: so defects would be what keeps us from REC there
... I think it needed some edits, not much. Paul won't be able to work on it this year
... One of Mozilla's devs was interested in implementing. Not sure where it's going to go, though.

Peter: Stuck in CR then
... GCPM?

howcome: I think it's useful spec,
...

Peter: Fonts?

Jason: Good progress there. I think we can get to CR pretty quickly.
... Our only concern is the nature of downloadable fonts.
... I don't think we're proposing anything else that is controversial

howcome: You're putting Web Fonts back in the Fonts specification?

Jason: Yes.

howcome: The subset that's implemented or everything?

Jason: everything

Daniel: From discussion with Chris Lilley, most font descriptors were unimplemented.. panose, etc.
... So only a subset, not everything, should be in the spec
... Fonts spec will be edited by Chris Lilley, Jason, and John Daggett
... Small overhead in getting both WG to agree on publication

Jason: John and I would be willing to split them back out if merging leads to a roadblock
... I think font properties should be good to go
... Some issues came up in the design community about being able to suppress synthesized fonts
... And being able to style different fonts differently

fantasai: You can use multiple fonts in the same elements because of what glyphs are available. That means you'd style individual glyphs differently

Peter cuts off technical conversation and redirects to charter

Peter: Expect CR?

<dsinger> this seems very detailed here, but I am not sure I agree with the question. it falsl into the case "doctor, it hurts when I do this" and the reply "don't do that, then" seems appealing

Jason: Yes

Peter: REC?

Jason: don't know

<dbaron> ok, my 9:30 was thankfully quite short... calling back in now.

Peter: Template Layout?

fantasai: I think CR might be possible, not sure about implementations.. but there remains a lot of work to be done in that spec

Bert: I think we can get to CR
... But I haven't heard anybody talk about implementations

Peter: Tables?

<dsinger> dbaron: your (?) question where there was a mix of fonts with different intrinsic styles in a fallback list. but it can wait.

<dbaron> dsinger, I wasn't on the phone then, so it wasn't my question...

fantasai: MS is not likely to have much time to work on it until after IE8 releases. They usually spend time on specs right after the release

dbaron: I'm also interested in Tables.
... We'd probably want test suite drafts along with working drafts
... since it's not about features as about refining definitions

Peter: CSS Variables

Daniel: I think we should be able to get this to CR

<dsinger> safari and who else has this in implementation?

<dbaron> Bert, all that work on the old size algorithm was really only a small part of it...

Daniel: It does not seem to be that complex

Peter: Box Model

Bert: Box Model needs implementations
... of vertical layout
... It's the same as CSS2.1 for horizontal
... So maybe CR

Peter: Extended Box Model

Bert: WD at most

Peter: CSSOM View

fantasai: Need to ask Anne. I would guess REC, but should ask him.

Peter: Values and Units

howcome: Kinda sitting there

dbaron: We agreed to add cycle(), and it's not there.
... But I really do want to move this forward
... I would hope that we'd have an implementation within 2 years. Maybe not all of it. But there are a bunch of features that I do want to implement.

Peter: So commitment to CR
... Grid Positioning?

fantasai: I suspect WD

Alex: I would hope for CR.

Peter: Lists?

<Arron> Probably WD

<Arron> maybe CR if the tests suite is done early

Peter: Generated Content?

fantasai: CR

Peter: Cascading and Inheritance

howcome: not much changes there. Can probably go to CR

dbaron: Anything new beyond 2.1?

howcome: I don't think so

dbaron: If there's nothing new, why bother?

Peter: If there's nothing beyond 2.1, why do we add this?

<Arron> Specificity had to change for CSS 3 selectors didn't it?

Arron, specificity is defined in Selectors

fantasai: Can point to 2.1
... if it's needed for references

Peter proposes to drop from list

That seems to be ok

Peter: Marquee?

Bert: We need to finish that one
... We have to do that for the mobile profile
... CR certainly. REC, I'm not sure
... There are implementations in Mobile, not sure how good they are

fantasai: I'd aim for CR. Dependency on 2.1 can hold that back

Peter: FlexBox?

dbaron: I'd like to at least get working drafts out
... CR would be nice, but I'd say working drafts

Peter: Ok, I will go through list and come up with a new list that reflects what we think we can deliver

Dean Jackson: I think we can get Animations and Transitions to CR.

<dino> and Transforms

<plinss> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/actions/44

dbaron: I think in some cases we might have said that if we want to count 2 implementations they have to pass the same test.. if we're going through the "equivalent test" route
... where the implementations are passing two different versions of the same test
... If we don't require that, then we need to review the equivalent tests very carefully

RESOLUTION: adopt proposed wording for CR exit criteria

<dbaron> (assuming peter was in favor)

<dsinger> bye, thx, see you in late june

<plinss> Sorry, had a power failure here. Too many CPUs, not enough UPSes...

RRSAgent: make logs public

RRSAgent: make minutes

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/REC/CR/
Succeeded: s/dbaron/fantasai/
Found ScribeNick: fantasai
Inferring Scribes: fantasai
Default Present: dsinger, +1.760.741.aaaa, plinss, Daniel_Glazman, +47.21.64.aabb, David_Baron, +95380aacc, Bert, +1.703.265.aadd, jason_cranfordtea, howcome, fantasai, alex, dino
Present: dsinger +1.760.741.aaaa plinss Daniel_Glazman +47.21.64.aabb David_Baron +95380aacc Bert +1.703.265.aadd jason_cranfordtea howcome fantasai alex dino

WARNING: No meeting title found!
You should specify the meeting title like this:
<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting


WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Got date from IRC log name: 28 May 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/05/28-css-minutes.html
People with action items: