EOWG 23 May 2008


  1. EOWG Charter
  2. WAI physical/hardcopy outreach material
    1. (pending update from Sharron) Analysis/requirements
    2. WAI Flyer, updated draft - check if any new comments
    3. Sketches sent in e-mail
    4. The Old Quick Tips and the 12 WCAG 2 Guidelines
  3. Outreach updates, perspectives


Helle, Yeliz, Wayne, Shawn, Andrew, Alan, Doyle, Liam, Sylvie, William
Sharron, Henny, Jack, Lisa
Shawn Henry
doyle saylor
Clean up
Helle Bjarnø



EOWG Charter

Shawn: go to home page to look at the charter. I added the scope. Take a moment to look at the scope. Do you have any questions about that?

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/charter5draft

Since you looked at it before the scope has been added. That's the only significant change.

Alan: Should the scope include outreach outside W3C?

Wayne: looks right.

Shawn: Alan mention outreach outside of W3C perhaps?

Alan: yeah.

Yeliz: first scope, what about other technologies?

Shawn: we used to be say WAI guidelines covered all of that. But WAI ARIA...? We need to think about that in general.

Yeliz: If we just mentioned covered guidelines it is ok by.

Shawn: the phrase WAI guidelines doesn't cover all we do. Overall we need to change that wording. I've got a note, thanks.

Wayne: what is ARIA - guideline?

Sylvie: I think specifications would be good.

Shawn: my brain doesn't think of specifications as technologies.

Wayne: I think of specifications as for Technologies.

Yeliz: guidelines is still the right word?

Shawn: Guidelines/Standards

Andrew: formal guidelines.

Helle: getting more recognized as some sort of standards. In EU standards, referred to as standards. What do you say Shadi?

Shawn: he isn't here. They are in effect web standards.

Wayne: they are standards now.

Liam: de facto.

Shawn: all of them are standards. ATAG, ARIA. Anything else?

Helle: we say a variety of edu, resources in hard copy. Do we have that many hard cover, I only see quick tips, the flyer?

yeliz: Minor comment! there is a typing mistake for the link "variety of online and hard-copy education and outreach resources"

Shawn: We just have quick tips, flyers and handouts, but this period we will do more. WAI age and other ideas. Anything else in the scope? The other question I had in the deliverables section. Since we addressed before we added a little clarity about what we hadn't published before. We had a draft. Since we talked I tried to make a little more clear. I would welcome any suggestions about making it more clear, or comments about how it is.

Sylvie: I read the document through, I had difficulties understanding. New not published. Two categories, one is not published. Draft, and one that is not written not there. I don't understand what new is.

Shawn: I am looking through,

Sylvie: new category - a draft, or third, like existing?

Shawn: I am looking at. Actually...I will take an action to check on that.

<shawn> ACTION: shawn - charter - consdier clarifying totally new, versus have a draft that's not published yet. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/23-eo-minutes.html#action01]

Shawn: anything else on the charter?

Sylvie: it says new and then you find them again.

Shawn: you see the repeat of some documents? I'll check that.
... other things Sylvie?

Sylvie: no

Shawn: anyone else? On the charter?
... everyone approve this charter as is?

<shawn> Approve this charter as is?

<shawn> all: yes.

Shawn: objections?

Yeliz: yes approve.

<achuter> +1

Shawn: we will have some minor tweaks, reviewed by the W3 management. Then go through the AC (advisory committee) review. I don't expect any major changes. Not bring into a teleconference unless someone has something we need to talk about.

Helle: some cutoff date. New applications date?

Shawn: when we re-charter the group everyone will have to rejoin the group. In terms of invited experts. Most of the invited are set for a year. You may get a notice to update your information. You fill out a form and it is done.

Helle: I was cut off last year.

Shawn: invited experts is done automatically by the system. Shouldn't be a problem. Let me know if you do have a problem. Let me know.

Outreach material

WAI Flyer

<shawn> update wai flyer http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/flyerfront.en.html

Shawn: started an outreach document. When Sharron gets done with the doc. Next. We briefly looked at the WAI flyer last week. Just did some minor updates to that. Hasn't changed much. I am hoping that Judy will pursue get this redesigned and printed soon. If you are in IRC there is a link to that. On the EO home page the second list item. Under that WAI flyer, comma updated draft. Anyone not there?

Shawn: one thing I found we mentioned before. Liam noted to take off the HTPP colon ...sponsored link fixed, minor tweaks. Give you a chance to look at that. I'll put those sketches on line. ... So we are looking at the updated WAI flyer. Briefly looked at last week. Overall view last week. Judy will move forward pretty soon to print. Just a moment for some comment. No big changes since the last look. The link is in IRC and the minutes. I can walk you through. Anyone not have the draft WAI flyer.

Sylvie: I don't have.

Shawn: There is a link flyer updated draft, follow that link.
... Take a minute to look at that, and send an email to those who did not get them.
... looking at the flyer front. WAI draft front.

Sylvie: old one to revise?

Shawn: this is different from the printed. But not much changed since the last time we discussed it. Designed differently from this.

Helle: old ones had the quick tips on the back page. Is that still the plan?

Shawn: I don't know what Judy is going to do. Judy will do sometiing before we revise the quick tips.

Helle: this is the one before all the translations. Look on line for all the language versions?

Shawn: correct.

Helle: This kind of information on the flyer really worth the cost?

Andrew: yes, if you were presenting at, I'd give them away. Something about Web Accessibility to start them out and give a few pointers.

Helle: if we use outside the U.S. a little bit more about international activities, or participation.

Shawn: what says U.S. How can we clarify?

Helle: I'm not sure anything U.S., but people see as primarily as U.S. based. Something happening over there.

andrew: what about under participation "... through a n Internatiuonal consensus process ..."?

Shawn: first line, W3C is international body for the web. Could put something in the participation.

Andrew: participation...

Shawn: WAI welcomes participation from around the world.

Andrew: developments solution through an international process.

Shawn: action WAI flyer.
... help Helle?

andrew: ONCE

Helle: yeah I think so. I can see other European commission, and ONCE

<shawn> ACTION: shawn - flyer - look at adding "international" or "around the world" in participation... [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/23-eo-minutes.html#action02]

Shawn: look at adding international references.
... Trying to update. Anything else? On the WAI flyer front?


Shawn:So a little bit of background. We have been discussing creative outreach. Screen savers, posters. Teeshirts. Some ideas bouncing around in my head. To get feedback, and other ideas to share.

Shawn: there is the link in IRC. Anyone not in IRC?

<shawn> bumper sticker "Web Developers do it with WCAG 2"

Shawn: does everyone understand bumper sticker? Bumper sticker says Web Developers do WCAG 2.

<shawn> Web Developers do it according to guidelines|standards

Shawn: I'm curious if the sticker was available in computer laptop size.

Doyle: I don't put on stickers.

Shawn: any other comments on this idea. Are you accessible. The first one. Give a nod to Knowbility. They had a tattoo that said I am accessible.
... Are you accessible? That would be a laptop sticker or other things. Reactions?

doyle: like short & pithy

Yeliz: nice and short.

helle: like

Shawn: any concerns?
... if people use laptop stickers. Would you use it on a coffee mug, or tee shirt.

Yeliz: Post it notes.

Helle: make it braille? Print and braille?

andrew: +1 for mugs; -1 for post-its

Shawn: Any other comments?

Helle: I have a tee shirt. Got from an old member EO north of Boston.

Andrew: I know who you mean.

Shawn: similar to this?

Helle: I will find it and says something similar to this. use accessibility or something like that, and on the back dots like braille.

Wayne: make a good tee shirt.

Shawn: next one is cross word.

Yeliz: I prefer the first because you have to be familiar to the acronyms.

Shawn: rough brainstorms. Make better?

Helle: crossword part of it can go on a tee shirt. Or something like that.

Wayen: center bar that says accessibility. Acronym through each other.

Shawn: web access horizontal and other vertical.

Andrew: use the first "e" in wEb and in accEssability to form the initial cross.

Shawn: I like that idea lot.

Liam: One of the persons. Uses clubbing.
... might be something says read my braille.

<shawn> read my braille - i'm highly accessible t-shirt

Shawn: I have another idea. I am capturing that.

Wayne: I'm WAI accessible.

Shawn: crosswords or other free association?

Sylvie: I think say something in braille, narrows, have various types of images, to indicate various disabilities.

andrew: sign language; braille; large print; ...

Wayne: have a front and back.

Shawn: large print. Make a play off that. Read this now?

Andrew: if you can read this you are too close.

Liam: macular degeneration. Perceivable, operable, ...more explanation on the back.

shawn: t-hisrt: I'm perceivable, operable, understandbale and robust (explanation on the back)

Helle: who will do these?

Shawn: we can see how to manage that. We'll have to see. One of the other things we talked about having for free, versus other people can buy, or halfway in between. Best conceptually, impossible in practice.

William: if you want beyond some number.

Shawn: we never had people pay that I know of.

William: getting something, timing is important.

Shawn: anything else on the crossword. The last one was, the bottle pouring out.

Helle: I like but hardest in translations. Useful in English,perceivable, operable, understandbale and robust, does not easily translate. I can't come up with the good four words about the guidelines.

Wayne: even with ...

Helle: hard to translate.

William: in English, perceivalbe and understandable same. Not really.

Shawn: if you have creative juices flowing. Just to Shawn, or active participants.
... send to the list but very thoughtfully, anything questionable please think about sending to list. Any other thoughts on that. last thing.

quick tips and wcag 2 guidelines

<shawn> old quick tips: http://www.w3.org/WAI/quicktips/Overview.php

<shawn> 12 WCAG 2 Guidelines in "quick ref": http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/quickref/#contents

Wayne: except for time based media. All the guidelines have to do with user centered. Somehow maybe consider. Maybe not using exact titles and something WCAG quick to make the user centered aspect is completely clear. Everything, proceeds from a user need. Talks about the technology and how to use. Tells you why there are user problems. 1.1 is a text alternative. Non perceivable. Really say what you are giving. Which is the big different. not

Shawn: the exercise I did, is to look at the 12 guidelines use those guidelines for quick tips?

Wayne: I think you can.

Shawn: other reactions. What do we want to do with quick tips in 2.0?
... there is more on the card about quick tips.

Helle: on the old quick tips, we don't have all the guidelines. The most important ones.

Shawn: that is why I asked. The old ones, the past ones, much more specific, clear in of themselves. The 2.0 guidelines. provides a one step, some of them keyboard accessible, easy to be concise. Adaptable doesn't help. Doesn't tell me what to do. Do we want to try to do, like the original one that is very specific. More closely related to WCAG 2.0 guidelines?>

William: move to another level. Theme of the card as principals. That narrative is catchier. If you get into nuts bolts it goes on forever. Concentrate not on the contents. But the principals.

Shawn: yeah.

William: those things are definitely catchy. Beside the HTML

Wayne: I think that is interesting. Provide text alternatives for images and sounds. Forget all the rest of the stuff. Provide alternatives for multi media. That's it.
... categorize and do in parts. Maybe we improve the titles a little bit. Don't have to copy the guidelines word for word.

Willaim: the point is in order say something like, a lot of people can't use a monitor or mouse. Without getting into the details.

Yeliz: when I look at the old ones. They are very specific. When I look vers. 2 they sound very subjective. You have to read a lot more to understand what you need to do. Give to a developer to understand what you need to do. My question of what we want to do. For developers, or trying to give a broad over view of the guidelines.

William: the number of developers is miniscule compared to the people we want to reach.

Shawn: we can do multiple cards or things. We could have x that is focused on these ten specific things to do.

Yeliz: covering basics for developers.

Shawn: something else for others.

Wayne: I can understand that. One of the things about developers the crazies run the asylums. Most people think what can they get from technology. Not the how. An advantage in a user centered way. They do something pretty to see, but ugly to use.

Shawn: what was useful about quick tips cards? Something small or the information. What works. Think about what could work better.

Yeliz: I used before. These are things you really need to do. To explain to people.

Shawn: is this medium the best way to do that.

Andrew: very practical format. They can have something to remind them we used images. An initiator and memory jogger afterwards.

Shawn: I have one in my hand. Because of size it is very limiting. Regular sized sheet.

Yeliz: I like something to quickly read?

Doyle: folded laminated card.

Helle: it is important to keep the size. Easy to carry along. Meet people, give to people. If bigger sheet they leave on the table. Business card size. Stick in with other business cards.
... there is the information for using opening discussion, and reminder.

<andrew: +1 to Helle's point about a sheet of paper being thrown away but a business card is kept

Helle: We had the same business card for our libabry OPAC, how to open, how to search, show on the screen. Five initials things. Same experience. Business card size instructions.

<Zakim> andrew, you wanted to mention the MWI keyring cards

Sylvie: I agree with Helle important small format. Post card. Not to list all the guidelines. Four principals, or one two three explained. To have not technology. Form or images. Or links.

Doyle: post it notes. with one tip.

Andrew: a little set of cards, to see different aspects of what to promote. I like Sylvie post card as the next step up from business card.

Shawn: mobile web had twenty or so cards. Found that useless. Too much.

Andrew: little toys that sit on the desk. Not lose any because all are on a ring.

Shawn: I had an idea like three dimensional swag hand out. A cube with each side a tip. A URI on one side.

Helle: William didn't youu make those?

William: yes. I'll send the template of the tetrahedron. Done on a card. Tabs or slots. 508 ball.

Shawn: quick tips and tear off card. Hand them something to fold up. In presentations works great. Fidgeters can do something.

Wayne: two things, first, actually a business card is adaptable for low vision. Blow up in a copier. Until it is really huge. Think of enlargement small rigid is better than the big ones.

William: difference between the names of the guidelines, for example perceivable, is like sense, operable, what you do, robust how it works. Understandable is what we learned.

Helle: send in an email.

Wayne: if we use the guidelines. Twelve pages. Right there.

Shawn: ok. any other?

Yeliz: people of the day, every day have a WAI home page guideline of the day.

Andrew: technique for the day.

Yeliz: twelve cards.

<yeliz> http://www.w3.org/Mobile/

Shawn: where are the cards?

<yeliz> http://www.w3.org/2007/02/mwbp_flip_cards

<andrew> as PDF - http://www.w3.org/2007/02/mwbp_flip_cards.pdf

Shawn: I wonder if they have this PDF or XML? Best practices

<Wayne> look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhombic_dodecahedron for a nice fold up.

Shawn: short ones are nice.

Andrew: can get short form on the front of the cards or look at the back and see the long form.

Shawn: three or four guidelines.

Wayne: heavy cardboard, tabs, foldable. Tetra hedron, triangles won't take a lot of print. Rhomboids with equal sides can carry a lot of thoughts.

outreach updates, perspectives

Wayne: I wrote mapping from the guidelines, to 508. Use this four additional things to be WCAG compatible.

Andrew: I read that one pretty good.

Helle: group in Denmark making a Danish interpretation of the guidelines. Meeting on June 2nd to transform into WCAG 2 what we are going to do not so much a Danish version use the guidelines more as they are. So many additional materials and use WCAG 2 as is. Point to explanations. What additional materials interesting to translate. Instead of making Danish versions of stuff.

Shawn: remember there are authorized translations. Option now to have an official translation.

Helle: we could be making an authorized translation, but maybe wait a little while until we go into that.

Shawn: one might consider a translation now, or otherwise wait till the guidelines are totally stable.

William: what did Wayne post?

Wayne: I did the wikipedia dodecahedron.

Shawn: any other outreach updates? next week we might have the update of overlap doc. To publish and approve. Have a great weekend.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: shawn - charter - consdier clarifying totally new, versus have a draft that's not published yet. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/23-eo-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: shawn - flyer - look at adding "international" or "around the world" in participation... [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/23-eo-minutes.html#action02]  
[End of minutes]

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