W3C

i18n core working group

19 Sep 2006

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Felix, Francois, Richard
Regrets
Mary
Chair
Francois
Scribe
Felix

Contents


 

 

<scribe> scribe: Felix

<scribe> scribeNick: fsasaki

action items

<scribe> ACTION: Everybody to look at input mode discussion (DROPPED) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action01]

<scribe> ACTION: all to look at charmod resid test suite and gather feedback (PENDING) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action02]

Felix: Chris Lilley asked for IRI tests for SVG tiny 1.2 , I thought of creating a mini-test suite

Francois: we have no bandwith for a full test suite. Is the scope of the SVG tiny tests clear?

Felix: no, so far only PC between Chris and me

<fyergeau> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/CR-SVGMobile12-20060810/

<scribe> ACTION: Felix to write a mail about possibility for SVG tiny specific IRI tests to martin and the i18n core list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action03]

<scribe> ACTION: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod norm (PENDING) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action04]

<scribe> ACTION: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu on ws-i18n (PENDING) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action05]

<scribe> ACTION: Francois to give input to wiki for the LTLI summary [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action06]

Wiki

prepared by Richard, see

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jul/0026.html

<scribe> ACTION: Richard to review XHTML Basic 1.1$B!!(Band XHTML$B!!(BModularization 1.1 (DROPPED) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action07]

ITS review - what is left? E.g. discussion on Bidi-override scope in CSS2 and CSS 2.1

Richard: I think we are done with the ITS review, I need to double check

discussion on Bidi-override scope in CSS2 and CSS 2.1

Richard: I wrote a long mail on this yesterday, with about 7 questions
... some for XHTML people, some for CSS people
... we have to wait for some response from CSS
... basic idea: Martin and I believe that if you declare override on the block-element, everything in that element should be overriden
... currently, CSS 2.1 don't say that, and the current implementations in browsers follow CSS 2.1

Francois: e.g. if you have a dir attribute at a <div> element, everything should be overriden?

Richard: currently there is no override for CSS 2: if there is a <p> in the <div>, nothing will happen
... in CSS 2.1, there will be an override for the <p> , but not for e.g. a <div> within the <div>
... e.g. text in a <p> in a <div> within a <div> will not be reordered

Francois: sounds strange. Touches many working groups
... very specialized subject for some people. We should try to engage them, does Najib know about this?

Richard: no
... Paul Nelson got involved a bit
... what do you think what should happen?

Francois: I think everything in a <div> should be overriden
... there could be reasons not to override everything

Felix: I would follow Richard's and Martin's proposal

Richard: having e.g. dir="rtl" would cancel the override
... for an embedded element

Francois: having override on a block element is not an interesting requirement
... it is only for small bits of text

Richard: I recently edited a boiler template text for Hebrew / Arabic
... in that case, I really wanted to have the override

(discussion on use-cases for block-level override)

(Richard says that dealing with visualy ordered text is a use case)

Richard: the behavior of CSS 2.1 described at [Question 3 (CSS)] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2006JulSep/0157.html is what current browsers do

Francois: does this relate to bidi-override inheritance?

Richard: we have to consider in ITS what that means
... we say in ITS that RLO is inherited, but say that the behavior depends on the implementation
... so we separated inheritance from behavior

Felix: in ITS, there is nothing about behavior, all is about inheritance of information - for all data categories

Francois: we should get more people in this discussion
... Richard showed in his mail that specs and behaviors contradict
... I think there is a bidi-list at Unicode, we should invite people from that list

Richard: we could also blog on it, or discuss it on www-international

Francois: we might loose the style people
... so we move out of of i18n-core, and go to www-international
... what about Paul's reply to your mail?

Richard: I'm not sure what he is up to

Francois: inheritance in CSS means: if s.t. is inherited, the effect is the same as being specified at a specific element

Richard: for directionality, that means a new embedding level

Francois: yes.
... you could also say that directionality is not inherited, but the effect "goes down"

Richard: you have 3 ways of inheritance: ITS (no behavior, only inheritance of information)
... behavior without inheritance, and inheritance together with behavior
... what will happen without markup, with multiple lines of text?
... is there some effect of newlines?

Francois: newlines in XML are just converted to spaces

Richard: what about plain text?

Francois: not aware of a specific handling

Richard: next step: I resend the mail to www-international and the style-list

Francois: copy the BIDI-unicode list

<scribe> ACTION: Richard to send his mail on bidi-override scope in CSS2 and CSS 2.1 to www-international and the style-list, and copy the BIDI-unicode list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action08]

XML Schema issue

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2006JulSep/0134.html

Francois summarizes the mail

Richard: we have enough on the battle of early normalization

Francois: yes
... I sad it was a good idea
... we cannot have early Unicode normalization, so it is better to have this
... I send my reply to Michael also to the list and wait a week

<scribe> ACTION: Francois to send his reply on xml schema to the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action09]

LC reviews

Felix: possibility of reviewing Voice Extensible Markup Language (VoiceXML) 2.1
... see http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-voicexml21-20060915/

Francois: changes at http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-voicexml21-20060915/#sec-changes
... nothing i18n specific it seems

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Felix to write a mail about possibility for SVG tiny specific IRI tests to martin and the i18n core list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Francois to give input to wiki for the LTLI summary [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Francois to send his reply on xml schema to the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: Richard to send his mail on bidi-override scope in CSS2 and CSS 2.1 to www-international and the style-list, and copy the BIDI-unicode list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action08]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: all to look at charmod resid test suite and gather feedback [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action02]
[PENDING] ACTION: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod norm [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu on ws-i18n [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action05]
 
[DROPPED] ACTION: Everybody to look at input mode discussion [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action01]
[DROPPED] ACTION: Richard to review XHTML Basic 1.1$B!!(Band XHTML$B!!(BModularization 1.1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action07]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2006/09/19 15:08:13 $