See also: IRC log
<shawn> scribe: harvey
<shawn> scribenick: shawn
<scribe> scribenick: Nm
Harvey trying to scribe
Deadline 6 Feb for tech plenary; link on wai page
<shawn> harvey: Boston IA meeting with Steve Krug. however, Krug's site has accessibility problems - [PJ Gardner] demo-ed redesign of Krug's site that looks the same & is more accessible. Krug open to implementing.
Judy wish 45 minutes on before/after
shadi: more to go; today focus on overall navigation and structure of demo site
Added briefer description; and a site map of pages in suite
Coming links on left nav bar.
william: presumes an in-place website. Implies need to do a before site?
JB: original purpose: a demo only, not dull and boring;repair first transformation; then to
Prior comment shawn;
shadi: learning about specific
web features is objective;
... look at best practice, needn't start with accessible website;
... expect larger audience
William: this looks like a stand-alone; needn't be so.
Shadi: Questions: what first or second sample page users reach,
need to make concise and simple; make it effectively usable.
<shawn> s/JB: original purpose: a demo only, not dull and boring;repair first transformation; then to/Shawn: original purpose primarily dome for presentations, to show that accessibility dull and boring, example that can fix accessibility w/o significantly changing visual presentation
JB: Few had looked at this before
... Before site: know visually we are in a demo; minimally awareness
... need reminder of what viewing; what is an adequate indication of the viewing for non-visual; add an icon [visual] of what in.
SH: will have pictures on overview; pictures in navigation
Shadi: evaluation report is
sample; need some consistency -- be aware of being in the
... Concern for logo/icon/city-lights icon/
William: not great
JB: Thumbnails on right; a recognizable visual image of page(s)
Jack: indication of where you are
Pasquale: position where you are.
Barry joined 09:04
<barry> zakim +??P9 is Barry
William: could show image; features list; prefer naming
instead of bulleted list, pictures with minimal description.
JB: in Demonstration Contents?
... Before and After, should be added
<Justin> Before Redesign Web Site (Inaccessible)
Shadi: before and after -- verb rather than name; clearer name\
<Justin> Inaccessible Web Site (Before)
Shadi: name should reflect change; certainly in contents
William: names before is like features list;
<shawn> ACTION, shadi, changelog: add elements to tie the pages together, that is, make it look like the pages fit together. e.g., on the Overview and Evaluation pages, include a small image of the BAD Home page, and on the Features page, include an image of each page (e.g., float right after h2). [shawn adds: perhaps put the CityLights logo &/or yellow bar at the top &/or the background colour...]
JB: New Subject: Evaluation Report
That link isn't found
<Jack> Does not work for Jack.
Shadi Structure -- valid markup, CSS, deprecated elements;
Will be link in left navigation bar
Minutes are done without access to page
HBj: links to where? to checkpoints?
Shadi: just to checkpoints;
SH: all but first one; awkward to go to many links
HBj: If had heading structure; links to findings; links; descriptions.
SH: Structures, add sub-grouping.
Justin: Still seeking feedback on organization.
Shadi: first page grouping; add sub-groups as appropriate.
Original title "images" actually much more.
WM agrees; though this is hube.
JB: Evaluation report, then details
Shadi: may need expansion with examples
<judy> reminder of our evaluation template: http://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/template.html
HBj: clarify use of template; a model filled-in one
JB: Before and After site as
mediator; recommendations on how to fix; with deliberate
analysis of page
... Could link to template; example of its use.
... example of use of demo suite.
WM: example use of template for before/after; using evaluation template structure
<shawn> JB: Eval report for BAD *and* example of Eval Report Template
JB: take what we learn; tweak evaluation template.
WM: shadi's outline would use this template.
JB: Expect view of initial draft today.
SH: Looking at URL of the report
WM: Doesn't see yellow part
Shadi: is categorization OK?
HBj: sees yellow part
HBj: Yellow part is just notes
Pasquale: question repetition of structure
Shadi: checkpoints listed;
in-page navigation; groupings
... scripting for navigation; should help user read report and get overview
<shawn> barry: navigation often site-wide, rather than per individual page
JB: Template doesn't take into account its use; some reflect back on the template
Shadi: Comment on-line about the structure
Home page Draft Before and After Demonstration: Features
On right menu: links to inaccessible/accessible versions
That menu might have small images
Bullet points editorial cleanup
Read: using; then comment on organizational structure
Justin, shawn will read.
JB: Need comment on Demo/features link above.
<shawn> requirements: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/retrofit/retrofitting-changelog.html#about
<shawn> ROUGH early concept draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/retrofit/Overview.html
WM: overwhelmed BY issue of accessibility
Henk: how to read accessibility report
Suite: recipients want to understand report better.
SH: Doc: repair/retrofit site; what to do next
Henk: need clear starting point.
SH: Topic: Retrofitting Web Sites for Accessibility rough concept draft
Henk: Audience is those who have done the first step.
SH: Some may get here without
background. Need clarification.
... are main points covered?
... Liam comment on needed skills and expertise? would fit somewhere; email two weeks ago; need outside help vs doing it yourself
Jack: after retrofit; fixed easy ones; go back and improve; how prioritize problems once picked "easy fruit".
SH: some document on to-do list: seeking outside expertise.
Barry: encourage people to be public on accessibility work in progress; keep users in the loop; part of managing expectations
Liam: to draft paragraph on issue
Good to do as soon as aware of problem.
Help is available; tools for evaluation
Training avoids future problems/bringing in outside expertise can help
<shawn> slh: fixing? retrofitting? repairing?
Retrofitting? Fixing? Repairing?
<shawn> henk: repairing not so good 'cause not broken
<shawn> henk: replacing for newer things
<Zakim> judy, you wanted to comment on issues w/ "retrofitting"
Retrofitting is getting a newer version; there may not be one?
<shawn> shawn & judy: "retrofitting" jargony, not familiar even in own language English
<shawn> sailesh & helle: improving
HBj: agree with Sailesh: "improving"
WM: improving the accessibility
of your website is congratulatory.
... Define retrofit at top.
SH: make title welcoming: Improving the accessibility of your website?
<shadi> how about "incorporating accessibility on your Web site"?
<shawn> liam: improving accessibility on exsiting web sites
<shawn> shadi: incorporate or implement
Implementing Web Site Accessibility
JB: Too general? We focus on existing websites.
HBj: purpose -- add to existing website; explain in the beginning.
<Liam> Making existing website accessible?
SH: Title should be welcoming and easy to understand.
<shawn> henk & helle: improving accessiility by retrofitting your web site
<shawn> justins: making web site more accessible?
Liam: Making existing websites accessible
<shadi> including accessibility on your Web site
accessibility problems, barriers, errors, how to fix,
<shawn> accessibility problems? accessibility issues?
JB: Many documents use barriers; chose a loaded word.
<shawn> accessibility errors. lack of accessibility, inaccessibility
JB: Barriers is loaded word -- suggest need repair
Shadi: barriers translates well "barrier-free".
<shawn> liam: remove barriers, rather than overcome them
Lots of people like "barriers"
JB: Website problem -- server
outage recently; some uploads were lost.
... Next Friday finish comment on documents.
... Sunday's EO comments on WCAG. have some feedback.
... Have taken many of our comments informally; may wish to revisit next Friday
... Look at SH: agenda page for Tech Plenary end Feb/Mar; one agenda page.
... Got 2-week discounted rate extention.
SH: comment on retrofitting document
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.127 of Date: 2005/08/16 15:12:03 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/harvey: Boston IA meeting with Steve Krug. demo by [PJ Gardner] of Krug's redesigned site that looks the same & is more accessible/harvey: Boston IA meeting with Steve Krug. however, Krug's site has accessibility problems - [PJ Gardner] demo-ed redesign of Krug's site that looks the same & is more accessible. Krug open to implementing./ WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/JB: original purpose: a demo only, not dull and boring;repair first transformation; then to/Shawn: original purpose primarily dome for presentations, to show that accessibility dull and boring, example that can fix accessibility w/o significantly changing visual presentation Succeeded: s/pre-page/per individual page/ Succeeded: s/agree with Shadi/agree with Sailesh/ Succeeded: s/justing:/justins:/ Succeeded: s/overxome/overcome/ Found Scribe: harvey WARNING: No scribe lines found matching ScribeNick pattern: <harvey> ... Found ScribeNick: shawn Found ScribeNick: Nm ScribeNicks: shawn, Nm Present: Bingham Shawn Loughborough Judy Henk Shadi Justin_Thorp Pasquale_Popolizio Doyle_Saylor Liam_McGee Jack Barry Regrets: Wayne Jack Tanguy Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2006JanMar/0029.html WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Got date from IRC log name: 27 Jan 2006 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2006/01/27-eo-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]