See also: IRC log
<antoine> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Sep/0095.html
<antoine> Scribe: Gordon
<antoine> Scribenick: GordonD
RESOLUTION: Accept minutes
Tom: I am working with Pete Johnston on the joint meeting with DC Architecture Forum
<emma> here is the background document (from the agenda) http://dublincore.org/architecturewiki/DcamInContext
TomB: Meeting agenda is near-final, basic outline, unless anyone wishes to add something
<jodi> (also try scrolling down, there's a float drop problem in that webpage)
<scribe> ACTION: Any proposed changes to agenda for joint meeting with DC Architecture Forum (http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010), please email TomB [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action01]
Antoine: Agenda for face2face
meeting under development
... intention today is to make progress on draft agenda
jneubert: agenda for Cologne meeting will be developed after mid-October
antoine: Will allow output of Pittsburgh f2f to be considered
Karen: Have made progress on structuring use cases against topic list
emma: Need to find use cases that illustrate topics (if no use case matched so far)
<Asaf> Perhaps a clarification is needed in the Topic wiki page as to what the nicks after each item mean -- people interested in the topic? People owning use cases related to the topic? etc.
emma: Suggest next couple of calls discuss who is interested in each topic, and why, to fill-in gaps in use-case evidence
Karen: Spreadsheet created to match use-cases against topics
Antoine: Useful to share with the group, and group members can confirm matches
<Asaf> I volunteer to help convert it to a Wiki table. I grok wiki syntax.
<jodi> it is possible to share a google doc with a mailing list, but I don't think that's the preferrred alternative
Karen: Will export spreadsheet in csv for conversion to a wiki table
<scribe> ACTION: Karen to export spreadsheet, and Asaf to convert to wiki table [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action02]
emma: suggest conversion of
Karen's other document to wiki, link-up table to use-cases,
... spreadsheet is becoming difficult to use as number of use cases increases
Karen: some topics may not have use cases, we need to identify and provide additional evidence
<scribe> ACTION: Use-case owner(s) to check table and matches [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action03]
<scribe> ACTION: Topic owners to check table and think about supplying additional use-cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action04]
<scribe> ACTION: emma, kcoyle, GordonD, Marcia, bvatant to structure the discussion of use cases in light of the topic list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/23-lld-minutes.html#action01] [CONTINUES]
<Asaf> Repeat my earlier comment: <Asaf> Perhaps a clarification is needed in the Topic wiki page as to what the nicks after each item mean -- people interested in the topic? People owning use cases related to the topic? etc.
<Zakim> monica, you wanted to ask if adding topics/interests still welcome
<emma> observes that we have a pending action on this
<scribe> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08]
<marcia> Could Kai introduce what he did before for user case studies?
antoine: changing topics may cause problems for matching process, suggest any changes signalled to list as an alert
<kai> @marcia: what do you mean?
<marcia> you did user case analysis before, how did you do?
<marcia> using a topic sheet to match or...?
asaf: clarify - what is relationship between topics and nicks (interest, action, other?)
<kai> ah, ok. Yes, I did it for software development, but I am not sure if this does lead to more confusion... ;-)
<emma> @asaf, initially it means that people are interested in the topics
<kai> marcia? can you speak?
marcia: what did Kai do with use cases previously?
kai: abstract use cases to
identify requirements, requirements then related back to use
... need to curate use cases, especially when submitted from outside the group
... for example, relating use cases to each other, assign to topics
... use cases may cluster hierarchically, allows abstraction to identify requirements
antoine: use case curators should feed back to use case owners to improve clarity, etc.
<Asaf> My use case is almost finished: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/User:Abartov/DraftUC -- but I can't quite find instruction on how to contribute a use case from within the group -- do I just stick it in [[Use Cases]] or do I send it to Karen or...?
<emma> @asaf just stick it in [[Use Cases]]
<emma> then send a message to the list to announce it
<Zakim> emma, you wanted to ask if we have to modify the use cases in the process
emma: use cases may be modified during curation
antoine: but care should be taken to preserve original meaning/intention
<marcia> thanks, Kai, very helpful.
<kai> thanks marcia, you are welcome :-)
alexander: where and how do we
define requirements; need to be separate from topics
... can begin to identify/define requirements during use case curation
antoine: f2f meeting a good
opportunity to start identification of requirements
... may be difficult to do it in advance of f2f: short timescale, new use cases may arrive
alexander: we could set up infrastructure for initial identification of requirements (ad hoc) prior to f2f
<jodi> alexander: duly noted! :)
<scribe> ACTION: Alexander to create wiki page for identifying requirements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action06]
<Zakim> emma, you wanted to ask if UC curation before or after F2F
emma: do we have to identify requirements as well as matching topics
antoine: no obligation to do so
karen: may need to give topics identifiers (numbers) to make cross-referencing easier
<TomB> suggest we not number them, but name them (simple handles)
<emma> +1 for IDs ;-)
<marcia> +1 tomB
<Asaf> Also, if the topics are Wiki headings, they are easily referenced as anchors.
karen: need nicknames for topics
antoine: be careful not to expend too much effort before f2f
emma: need to do something now,
to be prepared
... can be incorporated into use case/topic matching process
<marcia> I think some topics contain more than one in one topic line, the first thing maybe to break down
<scribe> ACTION: Everyone to elaborate on topics in the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08] [CONTINUES]