W3C

- DRAFT -

RDF Data Access Weekly

27 Sep 2005

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
+1.781.405.aaaa, PatH, Kendall_Clark, AndyS, DaveB, LeeF, DanC, EricP, EliasT, Souri
Regrets
SteveH, Jeen, JosD
Chair
DanC
Scribe
KC

Contents


 

 

<kendall> I think I'm scribing today.

<kendall> -alas-

well, I consider it a good thing, kendall :)

<kendall> :)

<kendall> I suck at it, but okay.

Convene, take roll, review records and agenda

<kendall> Anyone notice that a CS prof, Jon Kleinberg, got a MacArthur ("genius") grant? He apparently does algorithm design but also WWW research.

<kendall> s/halo/mandela/ :)

<kendall> Attending: Souri, EricP, me, Pat, Andy, Lee, Dan, Elias

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/att-0446/dawg-13sep.html__charset_ISO-8859-1 minutes 13 Sep

<kendall> Minutes approve

<kendall> d

<kendall> :>

<DaveB> (Regrets for me 4Oct)

<kendall> I'm at risk for 4 Oct.

EricP is at risk 4 Oct

bijan, are you and enrico still planning to be here 4 Oct?

<bijan> I am

<bijan> I can't speak for enrico but he's not told me not

ok. you don't care to scribe, do you? 1/2 ;-)

<kendall> I'm leaving for .MX on the 5th, so there's a good chance I'll have to miss telcon.

<bijan> I don't care to scribe :)

scribe for 4 Oct: LeeF

<scribe> ACTION: [DONE] AndyS to add the above graph test cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action01]

<scribe> ACTION: [DONE] SteveH to review the relevant test case re: IRI normalization [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action02]

<scribe> ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action03]

<scribe> ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action04]

<scribe> ACTION: ericp to draft lang-match design, summarizing and citing RFC3066 [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action05]

Protocol Last Call

-> http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-rdf-sparql-protocol-20050914/ protocol lcwd

-> http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-rdf-sparql-protocol-20050914/sparql-protocol-query.wsdl wsdl

<ericP> Content-Type: application/wsdl+xml

targetNamespace="http://www.w3.org/2005/08/sparql-protocol-query/#">

and I get 404 @ http://www.w3.org/2005/08/sparql-protocol-query/ [which means it shouldn't have been published]

<scribe> ACTION: EricP to arrange for 200 response from http://www.w3.org/2005/08/sparql-protocol-query/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action06]

xmlns: st="http://www.w3.org/2005/09/sparql-protocol-types/#"

sparql-protocol-types.xsd,v 1.1 2005/09/14 15:04:07 eric Exp

happy enough

KC: yes, sparql-protocol-types.xsd,v 1.1 2005/09/14 15:04:07 is happy enough

<kendall> some confusion caused by .../2005/08/... and .../2005/09/... URIs

KC: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/lc-status-report.html

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Sep/0077.html David Wood: SPARQL Protocol Review and Comments

<LeeF> Kendall, isn't this the latest version actually:

<LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/sparql-protocol-types.xsd ? ( 2005/09/21 )

LeeF, is that interestingly different from sparql-protocol-types.xsd,v 1.1 2005/09/14 15:04:07 ?

i.e. other than CVS keywords?

<LeeF> Yes

<LeeF> It removes a stray "/>"

<LeeF> And adds an import of the result format XSD

<EliasT> Lee, there's an xs:import on that one..

<LeeF> On which one?

<EliasT> sorry... I saw this one: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/sparql-protocol-types.xsd

<LeeF> Right - that's the 9/21 latest one AFAIK

<LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2005/09/sparql-protocol-types/# is older

<AndyS> Won't I have to change code for the SOAP binding (not a block as not widely deployed)?

KC: David Wood's comments were substantial... as he's affiliated with UMD, I've had some offline discussion and I think he'll be satisfied with some minor editorial changes.

<kendall> yep

SPARQL Protocol and WSDL

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0505.html Update and issues: ACTION: LeeF to draft WSDL 1.1 for SPARQL thingy with AndyS and Elias

<scribe> ACTION: [DONE] LeeF to draft WSDL 1.1 for SPARQL thingy with AndyS and Elias [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action07]

discussion of protocol types... seq/all... the all construct we used seems to be invalid

<LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/sparql-protocol-types.xsd

<AndyS> Children of query-request : parent of default-graph-uri

PROPOSED: to change revert query-request from xs:all back to xs:seq

<AndyS> Schema issue: wants any number, any order of items

PROPOSED: to revert query-request from xs:all back to xs:seq

<DaveB> (just the first xs:all)

PROPOSED: to revert query-request from xs:all back to xs:seq, noting with regret this is due to limiations of XML Schema

<AndyS> +1

so RESOLVED.

<scribe> ACTION: KC to revert query-request from xs:all back to xs:seq and note this is due to limiations of XML Schema [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action08]

<DaveB> here's as far as I got in 2001 - http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/discovery/2001/09/rdf-xml-schema/

<DaveB> ref to http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-rdf-syntax-grammar-20040210/#section-RELAXNG-Schema

discussion of how to describe RDF/XML from WSDL ... whether to use XSD with any and a comment/annotation, or relax-ng per RDF/XML spec, or both

(a) from sparql-protocol types, reference an .xsd that gives a "stub" definition of rdf:RDF

<kendall> LeeF: 1. Change the normative XSD to reference a basic RDF schema

<kendall> LeeF: 2. Fork the XSD to have a copy for the WSDL 1.1

2. ... and keep the existing XSD description of rdf:RDF

3. Fork the XSD to have a stub XSD declaration of rdf:RDF for the WSDL 1.1, and a relax-ng description for normative WSDL 2.0

3. Fork the XSD. One copy has a stub XSD declaration of rdf:RDF for the WSDL 1.1. The other has a relax-ng description for normative WSDL 2.0

considered both stub XSD and relax-ng descriptions of rdf:RDF, but it doesn't seem to be technically possible.

Elias: I don't see much concrete benefit to using the relanx-ng description of rdf:RDF in this context

<LeeF> That was Elias

<kendall> PROPOSED: To add a new schema doc, rdf.xsd, which sparql protocol types document imports.

(the "stub" should say 'any', plus have a link to the RDF/XML scpec)

<kendall> It clearly sucks. :>

<LeeF> It's a choice between sucking but allowing tools to work easily, and not sucking but not allowing tools to work without jumping through hoops.

so RESOLVED. Hayes abstaining

<kendall> 0 objections, PatH abstaining

<kendall> thx

<DaveB> see rdf.xsd in http://thefigtrees.net/DAWG/sparql-wsdl-1.1-note.html

<scribe> ACTION: KC to review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action09]

ACTION 6 = KC: review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness, w.r.t. WSDL 2.0 constraints

<DaveB> <soap:operation style="document" soapAction="http://www.w3.org/2005/08/sparql-protocol-query/#query-action" />

<ericP> http://www.w3.org/2005/08/sparql-protocol-query/

KC's actions to send WSDL comments are DONE...

<scribe> ACTION: DanC to notifty DAWG of WSDL response to our WSDL comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action10]

<kendall> Is it feasible or sensible to add the WSDL 1.1 stuff as an appendix of our spec?

<kendall> KC: Wondering whether the normative spec should reference the WSDL 1.1 Note.

<kendall> Elias & Lee (?) seem to be okay with that

<EliasT> Yes.

<scribe> ACTION: EliasT to elaborate on how to use this WSDL 1.1 stuff with tools [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action11]

<EliasT> that was Lee

ACTION 8 = Lee: elaborate on how to use this WSDL 1.1 stuff with tools

<scribe> ACTION: KC, EricP to review WSDL 1.1 sparql protocol publication candidate, once a candidate pointer is mailed to the WG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action12]

<kendall> I want the right to say Elias is a big meanie! :>

<scribe> ACTION: DanC to help with SOTD of WSDL 1.1 sparql protocol [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action13]

<patH> kendall, I think its in the constitution.

ACTION 9 = DanC: publish WSDL 1.1 sparql protocol note, contingent on thumbs-up from KC, EricP, Lee/Elias

issues#sort

<kendall> pat: ah, yes. thankx.

-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/ 1.493 stuff on < and ORDER

<ericP> http://unagi/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#defn_Ordered

<ericP> The "<" operator (see the Operator Mapping Table) defines the relative order of pairs of numerics, xs:dateTimes and xs:strings.

<ericP> If the ordering condition is a named variable, RDF Literals are compared with the &quot;&lt;&quot; operator (see below) where

<ericP> possible.

<scribe> ^ new and older, resp.

<ericP> 2005-09-27T11:30:39Z <ericP> i.e. if ?a has the bindings "b", "a", "c", we want to ORDER ?a and ORDER str(?a) to be the same

BASE IRI resolution comment **

issues#rdfSemantics, issues#owlDisjunction **

<DaveB> at http://www.w3.org/2005/09/20-dawg-irc

<scribe> DONE: ACTION Pat: summarize the entailment consensus

<scribe> ACTION: Bijon to take a pass through the editor's draft, listing what will change with the new semantics understanding, and what will not [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action14]

<scribe> ACTION: Enrico to take a pass through the editor's draft, listing what will change with the new semantics understanding ... [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action15]

SPARQL QL grammar, issues#punctuationSyntax

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0470.html test reviews

everything under SyntaxDev, as discussed in 0470

^right?

ammendment: don't approve syntax-struct-04.rq

<scribe> ACTION: EricP to fix test schema to match manifest with negative tests [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action16]

<DaveB> there are two other duplicates: syntax-form-construct05.rq and syntax-form-ask-01.rq

<AndyS> nor syntax-form-construct06.rq, syntax-form-ask-02

PROPOSED: to approve SyntaxDev, as discussed in 0470, without dups

so RESOLVED.

AFS: grammar is in yakker, not yet in rq23... also there's some BNODE renaming stuff...

<scribe> ACTION: AFS to propose resolution to punctuationSyntax, folding recent yakker grammar into editor's draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action17]

ADJOURN.

<LeeF> DanC, ericP or whomever else: EliasT has CVS check-in access under DataAccess, but if it's not a problem I could use it also to expedite getting the wsdl 1.1 stuff up there

hmm

<LeeF> If it's a problem, I'll just get Elias to do it for me :-)

do you have an ssh2 key?

ericp seems interested to help

<ericP> LeeF, mail me your pub key

<AndyS> Eric - 5 mins on another thing thing?

<ericP> or paste it

<ericP> AndyS, can do

<AndyS> Eric - 5 mins on another sorting thing?

<LeeF> let me find it, I use it rarely at most =)

<AndyS> Phone?

<LeeF> ericP - will mail it to you a bit later - thanks

<scribe> Scribe: KC

<patH> hey, did anyone want to talk about something with me? Im back now.

I think ericp wanted to talk with you, patH, but he might have gotten what he needs from AndyS

<patH> OK, great. Bye then, back to work.

<DaveB> request on ExprBuiltins/result-str-2.ttl change "01 ;' to '01"^^xsd:integer'

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: AFS to propose resolution to punctuationSyntax, folding recent yakker grammar into editor's draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action17]
[NEW] ACTION: DanC to help with SOTD of WSDL 1.1 sparql protocol [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action13]
[NEW] ACTION: DanC to notifty DAWG of WSDL response to our WSDL comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action10]
[NEW] ACTION: EliasT to elaborate on how to use this WSDL 1.1 stuff with tools [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action11]
[NEW] ACTION: EricP to arrange for 200 response from http://www.w3.org/2005/08/sparql-protocol-query/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: EricP to fix test schema to match manifest with negative tests [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action16]
[NEW] ACTION: KC to revert query-request from xs:all back to xs:seq and note this is due to limiations of XML Schema [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: KC to review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: KC, EricP to review WSDL 1.1 sparql protocol publication candidate, once a candidate pointer is mailed to the WG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action12]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: Bijon to take a pass through the editor's draft, listing what will change with the new semantics understanding, and what will not [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action14]
[PENDING] ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Enrico to take a pass through the editor's draft, listing what will change with the new semantics understanding ... [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action15]
[PENDING] ACTION: ericp to draft lang-match design, summarizing and citing RFC3066 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action05]
 
[DONE] ACTION: AndyS to add the above graph test cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action01]
[DONE] ACTION: LeeF to draft WSDL 1.1 for SPARQL thingy with AndyS and Elias [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action07]
[DONE] ACTION: SteveH to review the relevant test case re: IRI normalization [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.127 (CVS log)
$Date: 2005/09/27 16:21:21 $

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[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.127  of Date: 2005/08/16 15:12:03  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/halo/mandela/ :)
Succeeded: s/Lee: I/Elias: I/
No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: DanC
Found Scribe: KC
Default Present: +1.781.405.aaaa, PatH, Kendall_Clark, AndyS, DaveB, LeeF, DanC, EricP, EliasT, Souri
Present: +1.781.405.aaaa PatH Kendall_Clark AndyS DaveB LeeF DanC EricP EliasT Souri
Regrets: SteveH Jeen JosD
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/att-0489/_ag27sep.html
Got date from IRC log name: 27 Sep 2005
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html
People with action items: afs bijon danc daveb eliast enrico ericp kc

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.


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