Technical Architecture Group Teleconference

16 May 2013


See also: IRC log


Marcos Cáceres, Anne van Kesteren, Peter Linss, Noah Mendelsohn, Jeni Tennison, Henry S. Thompson
Tim Berners-Lee, Dan Appelquist
Noah Mendelsohn, Peter Linss
Henry S. Thompson


<noah> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/16-agenda


<slightlyoff> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/04/18-minutes.html

NM: We will need a while to review those

<noah> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/02-minutes.html

RESOLUTION: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/02-minutes.html approved as a record of the meeting of 2 May 2013

NM: Marcos has decided he has to resign from the TAG, as being the second of two employees at Mozilla
... There will be a special election to replace him
... I encourage people to work to encourage good candidates to be nominated

PL: And encourage people to stand

NM: We should hear from Ian Jacobs shortly about the timetable

NM: It will pbly take several month

NM: Do we have an off-cycle call next week? I suggest we pend that decision, but only have a call if someone raises agenda items
... Discuss github now, or wait for f2f?

PL: MC, will you be at F2F?

MC: yes

PL: Introduce topic?

MC: We have a space, we can use it. . .

<JeniT> I have been using https://github.com/w3ctag to put up some presentations intended for F2F

NM: What org. owns this service?

MC: Git itself is distributed, so we replicate everything at W3C

NM: So we would have W3C URIs?

MC: Yes. Already doing this for SysApps WG

<slightlyoff> I'm a big fan of this, BTW

NM: So we can rely on W3C for persistence, and stick with the usual date-space disciplines

PL: Proxying?

MC: DNS magic, Dave Raggett set it up. . .

NM: Now unclear -- if Github got bought, would we be at risk?

MC: SysTeam is looking at bullet-proofing this

PL: We don't yet have a git host at W3C, but we do have a mercurial host there, and CSS WG surfaces that through github

NM: Does that actually give e.g. MC what he wants? I don't think he could push via git?

PL: The goal of exposing via git is to get into a social space
... and be visible there

NM: Sounds like they all have the necessary functionality

<JeniT> +1 for collaboration & pull requests

<JeniT> +1 for having a presence in github

<JeniT> +1 for doing work on github

<slightlyoff> I think we should do this

<slightlyoff> +1

MC: Let's postpone the decision to the f2f, where we will have more folk

NM: Trial this on one or two projects?

F2F Admin and logistics

AvK: Breakfast and Lunch are laid on, no dinner at the venue

NM: There is a dinner on the Wed. night, details coming from DA

NM: And the dev. meetup, at Mozilla, again details to come

<slightlyoff> is there a thing we can link to to help spread the word?

<annevk> not yet I think

<slightlyoff> is there going to be a signup? how will this work?

<annevk> slightlyoff: I'd suggest asking dan

<slightlyoff> oooook. Would love for this to be widely broadcast so we get lots of developers

<annevk> slightlyoff: I think the idea is to broadcast through London Web Standards, but I recommend reaching out to Dan

F2F agenda

PL: 1st day will be ---Camp approach, to collect agenda topics and longer-term TAG work items
... It would be good to have some things to read going in
... but we're looking to the membership to provide topics

<JeniT> +1 for camp approach

<HT> +1

<marcosc_> +1

<slightlyoff> +1

HT: HTTPbis is going into Last Call at IETF. I've been doing a close reading and would like to go over this with the group

<slightlyoff> +1, would love to hear about this

PL: Fine by me, reading?

HT: Will try to get you notes, but not sure yet

JT: Slides in preparation for capability URLs and distributed Web Architecture
... So there won't be prior reading

<noah> +1 to capability URLs. Would love to see slides early so we can get some email discussion ahead of F2F

<noah> (Newcomers should know that I'm famously skeptical of the wisdom of capability URIs, but that's put me in what appears to be a vanishingly small minority of TAG members)

<JeniT> noah, I'll send round links to slides

<noah> Thank you!

<annevk> (Is the stuff I mentioned about apps on the agenda? It's not really clear to me what has been recorded and what has not.)

I might like to (re-)introduce persistence

I have a keynote to give on the topic at the end of June. . .

<noah> Suggest at some point we look through the several ACTIONS relating to things that people promised/hoped to prepare for the F2F

JT: Alex's stuff? Is there more to come on that?

AR: I have a number of meetings intervening, but we should discuss idiomatic API design, as well as a hit list of APIs for review
... We should find a way to work on that together
... YK and MC were talking about particular APIs

<noah> ACTION-784?

<trackbot> ACTION-784 -- Alex Russell to with help from Yehuda to frame F2F discussion of layering -- due 2013-03-04 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/784

MC: I think we should have that discussion, I'm concerned that we don't lose sight of the declarative/idiomatic tradeoff

NM: Idiomatic APIs is not layering? Or is it?

AR: We covered a lot at the last meeting on the general stuff, so now we get to the details, which is idiomatic APIs

NM: So we got the general stuff, but I've missed the connection to APIs

AR: Yes, we need some stuff in the middle, I should try to supply that

NM: I would like to hear what our goals our -- what would success be
... not now, but before we go much further

<slightlyoff> agre

<slightlyoff> agree

<noah> tnx

<noah> Anyway, if new chairs want to continue using the ACTIONs tracker to keep track of what's up, we might want to returne ACTION=784

PL: So, AR, can you get us anything before the F2F?

<JeniT> http://w3ctag.github.io/presentations/reveal/capability-urls.html#/

AR: Yes, I'll try to get email out soon

<noah> ACTION-563?

<trackbot> ACTION-563 -- Noah Mendelsohn to arrange for periodic TAG key issues reports to Jeff per June 2011 F2F -- due 2013-05-18 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/563

NM: We have a standing obligation to report to JJ about what's coming that we think he should know about
... For example, certificate authority vulnerabilities
... We can of course say we don't have anything

<noah> ACTION-749?

<trackbot> ACTION-749 -- Jonathan Rees to with help from HT and JT to draft the TAG's response to the ISSUE-57 change proposal process initiated on 29 February 2012, based on http://www.w3.org/wiki/TagIssue57Proposal27/Background and F2F minutes of 8 October 2012. -- due 2012-11-13 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/749

JT: I'm waiting on URLs in Data publication before taking that forward

<noah> ACTION-749?

<trackbot> ACTION-749 -- Jonathan Rees to with help from HT and JT to draft the TAG's response to the ISSUE-57 change proposal process initiated on 29 February 2012, based on http://www.w3.org/wiki/TagIssue57Proposal27/Background and F2F minutes of 8 October 2012. -- due 2013-07-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/749

NM: So I've bumped the due date

PL: Nothing more?

<noah> Jeni, I should have checked for this agenda. You have two pending review actions. Should we discuss them if we run out of agenda today?

<noah> They are:

<noah> ACTION-752?

<trackbot> ACTION-752 -- Jeni Tennison to update URIs in data primer based on discussion at Tuesday F2F -- due 2012-11-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/752

<noah> and

<noah> ACTION-790?

<trackbot> ACTION-790 -- Jeni Tennison to do new Editor's Draft of fragids spec for approval to publish as CR -- due 2013-04-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/790

<JeniT> both are awaiting publication

<JeniT> I have sent to Yves

<noah> close ACTION-752

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-752 Update URIs in data primer based on discussion at Tuesday F2F.

<noah> close ACTION-790

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-790 Do new Editor's Draft of fragids spec for approval to publish as CR.

<slightlyoff> JeniT: LGTM on the fragid draft

iCal feed

<slightlyoff> we might have skipped it, but I wanted to say thanks to noah for getting the iCal feed set up

<noah> You're welcome, but Peter did almost all the work.

<noah> Indeed, Peter is running the server, so bug him if it breaks.

<slightlyoff> thanks plinss!

<slightlyoff> plinss: is there any chance we can socialize this with other WGs?

AR: Can anyone besides PL add entries?

PL: It's write-only for chairs at the moment

AR: If we could merge other WGs in would be helpful, in terms of planning etc.

PL: Just get them to ask for a login
... If this expands, we may need to look at moving it to W3C as such

NM: It is your server, PL?

PL: Under my control, paid for by HP [for CSS]

<annevk> Come on people. It's just a calendar thingie. ;-)

PL: We set it up to experiment with stuff which needed to be outside w3.org for CSS
... It's available

AvK: Is there a preliminary agenda for the F2F available?
... I mentioned something last week, not sure I know how to find out if it got noted

NM: DA and PL have in mind to use ---Camp approach, starting with seeds from e.g. discussion today

AvK: So there will be a WikiPage?

NM: We have TAG wiki space at w3c

<annevk> and we should maybe create http://www.w3.org/wiki/TAG

<marcosc_> or: https://github.com/w3ctag/f2f-meetings/wiki

<marcosc_> ;)

<annevk> marcosc_: I don't really see the point in using GH for that

<annevk> marcosc_: the URLs you get are way worse and there's none of the distributed benefits

<HT> I prefer W3 space

AvK: W3C should have only one wiki

<noah> I get "You don't have permission" from wiki.w3.org/TAG

<HT> I should have said http://www.w3.org/wiki/TAG

<annevk> which is what I said ;)

<noah> Right, you should :-)

<noah> That works

<slightlyoff> SGTM

<marcosc_> +1 even

NM: Call next week?

AvK: I pbly can't

NM: So we leave it on the books, but expect that we won't actually have a call on 23 May

PL: Works

<HT> http://www.w3.org/wiki/TAG now exists

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2013-05-16 18:18:38 $