IRC log of tagmem on 2013-05-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:58:09 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
16:58:09 [RRSAgent]
logging to
16:58:11 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:58:13 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be TAG
16:58:13 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
16:58:14 [trackbot]
Meeting: Technical Architecture Group Teleconference
16:58:14 [trackbot]
Date: 16 May 2013
16:58:38 [ht]
Chair: Peter Linss
16:58:57 [ht]
16:59:05 [ht]
ht has changed the topic to:
16:59:17 [Zakim]
TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has now started
16:59:24 [Zakim]
16:59:28 [ht]
Yehuda, can you scribe, per Noah's request?
17:00:31 [Zakim]
17:00:40 [ht]
zakim, ? is me
17:00:40 [Zakim]
+ht; got it
17:01:02 [Zakim]
17:01:18 [marcosc_]
Zakim, IPcaller is me
17:01:18 [Zakim]
+marcosc_; got it
17:01:41 [plinss]
zakim, who is noisy?
17:01:47 [JeniT]
JeniT has joined #tagmem
17:01:48 [marcosc_]
Zakim, who is noise?
17:01:48 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, marcosc_.
17:01:50 [annevk]
Zakim, passcode?
17:01:50 [Zakim]
the conference code is 0824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, annevk
17:01:52 [Zakim]
plinss, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: plinss (3%), ht (90%)
17:02:06 [Zakim]
17:02:09 [noah]
noah has joined #tagmem
17:02:15 [annevk]
Zakim, [IP is me
17:02:15 [Zakim]
+annevk; got it
17:02:31 [Zakim]
17:02:35 [Zakim]
17:02:48 [noah]
zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
17:02:48 [Zakim]
+noah; got it
17:02:49 [Zakim]
17:03:15 [Zakim]
17:03:37 [noah]
zakim, mute me
17:03:37 [Zakim]
noah should now be muted
17:03:51 [noah]
zakim, unmute me
17:03:51 [Zakim]
noah should no longer be muted
17:03:54 [slightlyoff]
"this passcode is not valid"
17:03:59 [ht]
17:04:04 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.997.aaaa
17:04:09 [ht]
17:04:11 [slightlyoff]
ht: that's never the issue
17:04:21 [slightlyoff]
ht: it always takes me 3 tries
17:04:26 [slightlyoff]
ht: with the right code
17:04:31 [noah]
17:04:32 [slightlyoff]
anyway, I'm in = )
17:04:57 [slightlyoff]
how do I tell Zakim that 415... is me?
17:05:13 [slightlyoff]
thanks, JeniT!
17:05:33 [ht]
Scribe: Henry S. Thompson
17:05:37 [ht]
ScribeNick: ht
17:05:42 [ht]
Topic: Admin
17:06:28 [slightlyoff]
17:06:50 [ht]
NM: We will need a while to review those
17:06:57 [noah]
17:07:30 [ht]
RESOLVED: approved as a record of the meeting of 2 May 2013
17:08:24 [ht]
NM: Marcos has decided he has to resign from the TAG, as being the second of two employees at Mozilla
17:08:37 [ht]
NM: There will be a special election to replace him
17:08:57 [ht]
NM: I encourage people to work to encourage good candidates to be nominated
17:09:04 [slightlyoff]
do we know when the election will be?
17:09:13 [ht]
PL: And encourage people to stand
17:09:26 [ht]
NM: We should hear from Ian Jacobs shortly about the timetable
17:09:27 [slightlyoff]
17:09:40 [ht]
NM: It will pbly take several month
17:10:23 [annevk]
marcosc_: this world is not big enough for the both of us
17:10:42 [ht]
NM: Do we have an off-cycle call next week? I suggest we pend that decision, but only have a call if someone raises agenda items
17:10:51 [ht]
NM: Discuss github now, or wait for f2f?
17:11:07 [ht]
PL: MC, will you be at F2F?
17:11:10 [ht]
MC: yes
17:11:19 [ht]
PL: Introduce topic?
17:11:34 [ht]
MC: We have a space, we can use it. . .
17:11:38 [JeniT]
I have been using to put up some presentations intended for F2F
17:11:51 [ht]
NM: What org. owns this service?
17:12:22 [ht]
MC: Git itself is distributed, so we replicate everything at W3C
17:12:33 [ht]
NM: So we would have W3C URIs?
17:12:56 [ht]
MC: Yes. Already doing this for SysApps WG
17:13:24 [slightlyoff]
I'm a big fan of this, BTW
17:13:27 [ht]
NM: So we can rely on W3C for persistence, and stick with the usual date-space disciplines
17:13:40 [ht]
PL: Proxying?
17:14:03 [ht]
MC: DNS magic, Dave Raggett set it up. . .
17:14:28 [ht]
NM: Now unclear -- if Github got bought, would we be at risk?
17:14:47 [ht]
MC: SysTeam is looking at bullet-proofing this
17:15:43 [ht]
PL: We don't yet have a git host at W3C, but we do have a mercurial host there, and then surface that through github
17:16:19 [ht]
NM: Does that actually give e.g. MC what he wants? I don't think he could push via git?
17:16:31 [JeniT]
+1 for collaboration & pull requests
17:16:52 [ht]
PL: The goal of exposing via git is to get into a social space
17:16:59 [ht]
... and be visible there
17:17:37 [ht]
NM: Sounds like they all have the necessary functionality
17:17:44 [JeniT]
+1 for having a presence in github
17:17:48 [JeniT]
+1 for doing work on github
17:17:50 [slightlyoff]
I think we should do this
17:17:51 [slightlyoff]
17:17:54 [ht]
q+ to prefer mercurial for my own work
17:18:25 [ht]
MC: Let's postpone the decision to the f2f, where we will have more folk
17:18:34 [ht]
NM: Trial this on one or two projects?
17:18:37 [ht]
q- ht
17:19:15 [ht]
Topic: F2F Admin and logistics
17:20:04 [ht]
AvK: Breakfast and Lunch are laid on, no dinner at the venue
17:20:13 [slightlyoff]
is there a thing we can link to to help spread the word?
17:20:26 [annevk]
not yet I think
17:20:32 [ht]
NM: There is a dinner on the Wed. night, details coming from DA
17:20:39 [slightlyoff]
is there going to be a signup? how will this work?
17:20:52 [ht]
NM: And the dev. meetup, at Mozilla, again details to come
17:20:56 [annevk]
slightlyoff: I'd suggest asking dan
17:21:11 [ht]
Topic: F2F agenda
17:21:19 [Zakim]
17:21:24 [slightlyoff]
oooook. Would love for this to be widely broadcast so we get lots of developers
17:21:50 [Zakim]
17:21:54 [ht]
PL: 1st day will be ---Camp approach, to collect agenda topics and longer-term TAG work items
17:21:59 [noah]
zakim, [IPCaller] is me
17:21:59 [Zakim]
+noah; got it
17:22:20 [ht]
PL: It would be good to have some things to read going in
17:22:38 [ht]
... but we're looking to the membership to provide topics
17:22:44 [ht]
q+ to mention HTTPbis
17:22:46 [annevk]
slightlyoff: I think the idea is to broadcast through London Web Standards, but I recommend reaching out to Dan
17:22:50 [JeniT]
+1 for camp approach
17:22:55 [ht]
17:23:04 [marcosc_]
17:23:05 [slightlyoff]
17:23:08 [ht]
ack ht
17:23:09 [Zakim]
ht, you wanted to mention HTTPbis
17:23:36 [slightlyoff]
+1, would love to hear about this
17:23:40 [noah]
ht: httpbis is going into last call. I've been doing close reading and would like to go over with group
17:23:52 [noah]
PL: Fine by me, reading?
17:24:01 [noah]
HT: Will try to get you notes, but not sure yet
17:24:09 [JeniT]
17:24:42 [ht]
JT: Slides in preparation for ??? and distributed Web Architecture
17:24:55 [ht]
... So there won't be prior reading
17:25:10 [Zakim]
17:25:25 [JeniT]
s/???/capability URLs/
17:25:51 [Zakim]
17:25:52 [noah]
+1 to capability URLs. Would love to see slides early so we can get some email discussion ahead of F2F
17:25:59 [ht]
I might like to (re-)introduce persistence
17:26:15 [ht]
I have a keynote to give on the topic at the end of june.. . .
17:26:30 [noah]
(Newcomers should know that I'm famously skeptical of the wisdom of capability URIs, but that's put me in what appears to be a vanishingly small minority of TAG members)
17:26:42 [JeniT]
noah, I'll send round links to slides
17:26:57 [noah]
Thank you!
17:27:26 [ht]
JT: Alex's stuff? Is there more to come on that?
17:27:46 [noah]
Suggest at some point we look through the several ACTIONS relating to things that people promised/hoped to prepare for the F2F
17:28:14 [ht]
AR: I have a number of meetings intervening, but we should discuss idiomatic API design, as well as a hit list of APIs for review
17:28:30 [ht]
... We should find a way to work on that together
17:28:53 [ht]
... YK and MC were talking about particular APIs
17:29:17 [noah]
17:29:17 [trackbot]
ACTION-784 -- Alex Russell to with help from Yehuda to frame F2F discussion of layering -- due 2013-03-04 -- OPEN
17:29:17 [trackbot]
17:29:24 [ht]
MC: I think we should have that discussion, I'm concerned that we don't lose sight of the declarative/idiomatic tradeoff
17:29:59 [ht]
NM: Idiomatic APIs is not layering? Or is it?
17:30:44 [ht]
AR: We covered a lot at the last meeting on the general stuff, so now we get to the details, which _is_ idiomatic APIs
17:30:55 [annevk]
(Is the stuff I mentioned about apps on the agenda? It's not really clear to me what has been recorded and what has not.)
17:31:17 [ht]
NM: So we got the general stuff, but I've missed the connection to APIs
17:31:47 [ht]
AR: Yes, we need some stuff in the middle, I should try to supply that
17:32:02 [ht]
NM: I would like to hear what our goals our -- what would success be
17:32:12 [ht]
... not now, but before we go much further
17:32:29 [slightlyoff]
17:32:31 [slightlyoff]
17:32:43 [noah]
17:33:09 [noah]
Anyway, if new chairs want to continue using the ACTIONs tracker to keep track of what's up, we might want to returne ACTION=784
17:33:31 [ht]
Present: Anne van Kestern, Henry S. Thompson, Jeni Tennison, Marcos Caceres, Noah Mendelsohn, Peter Lins
17:33:43 [ht]
PL: So, AR, can you get us anything before the F2F?
17:33:50 [JeniT]
17:33:51 [ht]
AR: Yes, I'll try to get email out soon
17:34:18 [noah]
17:34:18 [trackbot]
ACTION-563 -- Noah Mendelsohn to arrange for periodic TAG key issues reports to Jeff per June 2011 F2F -- due 2013-05-18 -- OPEN
17:34:18 [trackbot]
17:34:50 [ht]
NM: We have a standing obligation to report to JJ about what's coming that we think he should know about
17:35:16 [ht]
NM: For example, certificate authority vulnerabilities
17:35:41 [ht]
NM: We can of course say we don't have anything
17:35:45 [noah]
17:35:45 [trackbot]
ACTION-749 -- Jonathan Rees to with help from HT and JT to draft the TAG's response to the ISSUE-57 change proposal process initiated on 29 February 2012, based on and F2F minutes of 8 October 2012. -- due 2012-11-13 -- OPEN
17:35:46 [trackbot]
17:36:48 [ht]
JT: I'm waiting on URLs in Data publication before taking that forward
17:36:50 [noah]
17:36:50 [trackbot]
ACTION-749 -- Jonathan Rees to with help from HT and JT to draft the TAG's response to the ISSUE-57 change proposal process initiated on 29 February 2012, based on and F2F minutes of 8 October 2012. -- due 2013-07-01 -- OPEN
17:36:51 [trackbot]
17:36:58 [ht]
NM: So we'll bump the due date
17:37:13 [ht]
s/we'll bump/I've bumped/
17:37:34 [ht]
PL: Nothing more?
17:37:40 [noah]
Jeni, I should have checked for this agenda. You have two pending review actions. Should we discuss them if we run out of agenda today?
17:37:46 [noah]
They are:
17:37:49 [noah]
17:37:49 [trackbot]
ACTION-752 -- Jeni Tennison to update URIs in data primer based on discussion at Tuesday F2F -- due 2012-11-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:37:49 [trackbot]
17:37:50 [noah]
17:37:53 [noah]
17:37:53 [trackbot]
ACTION-790 -- Jeni Tennison to do new Editor's Draft of fragids spec for approval to publish as CR -- due 2013-04-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:37:53 [trackbot]
17:37:56 [slightlyoff]
we might have skipped it, but I wanted to say thanks to noah for getting the iCal feed set up
17:37:58 [JeniT]
both are awaiting publication
17:38:03 [JeniT]
I have sent to Yves
17:38:09 [noah]
You're welcome, but Peter did almost all the work.
17:38:25 [noah]
Indeed, Peter is running the server, so bug him if it breaks.
17:38:38 [slightlyoff]
thanks plinss!
17:38:46 [slightlyoff]
plinss: is there any chance we can socialize this with other WGs?
17:39:00 [noah]
close ACTION-752
17:39:00 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-752 Update URIs in data primer based on discussion at Tuesday F2F.
17:39:09 [noah]
close ACTION-790
17:39:09 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-790 Do new Editor's Draft of fragids spec for approval to publish as CR.
17:39:18 [slightlyoff]
JeniT: LGTM on the fragid draft
17:39:47 [ht]
Topic: iCal feed
17:40:07 [ht]
AR: Can anyone besides PL add entries?
17:41:03 [ht]
PL: It's write-only for chairs at the moment
17:41:12 [ht]
AR: If we could merge other WGs in would be helpful, in terms of planning etc.
17:41:24 [ht]
PL: Just get them to ask for a login
17:41:42 [ht]
PL: If this expands, we may need to look at moving it to W3C as such
17:41:59 [ht]
NM: It is your server, PL?
17:42:09 [ht]
PL: Under my control, paid for by HP [for CSS]
17:42:45 [annevk]
Come on people. It's just a calendar thingie. ;-)
17:42:55 [ht]
PL: We set it up to experiment with stuff which needed to be outside for CSS
17:43:08 [ht]
... It's available
17:44:03 [ht]
AvK: Is there a preliminary agenda for the F2F available?
17:44:35 [ht]
AvK: I mentioned something last week, not sure I know how to find out if it got noted
17:45:13 [ht]
NM: DA and PL have in mind to use ---Camp approach, starting with seeds from e.g. discussion today
17:45:32 [ht]
AvK: So there will be a WikiPage?
17:45:43 [ht]
NM: We have TAG wiki space at w3c
17:45:48 [annevk]
and we should maybe create
17:46:23 [marcosc_]
17:46:25 [marcosc_]
17:46:40 [annevk]
marcosc_: I don't really see the point in using GH for that
17:47:23 [annevk]
marcosc_: the URLs you get are way worse and there's none of the distributed benefits
17:47:24 [ht]
I prefer W3 space
17:47:40 [ht]
17:48:15 [ht]
AvK: W3C should have only one wiki
17:48:30 [noah]
I get "You don't have permission" from
17:48:40 [ht]
I should have said
17:49:00 [annevk]
which is what I said ;)
17:49:00 [noah]
Right, you should :-)
17:49:19 [noah]
That works
17:49:24 [slightlyoff]
17:50:00 [marcosc_]
17:50:05 [marcosc_]
+1 even
17:50:39 [ht]
NM: Next week?
17:50:46 [ht]
AvK: I pbly can't
17:51:27 [ht]
NM: So we leave it on the books, but expect that we won't actually have a call on 23 May
17:51:32 [ht]
PL: Works
17:52:08 [JeniT]
17:52:10 [slightlyoff]
17:52:10 [Zakim]
17:52:11 [Zakim]
17:52:13 [Zakim]
17:52:15 [Zakim]
17:52:15 [ht] now exists
17:52:17 [Zakim]
17:52:22 [Zakim]
17:52:30 [Zakim]
17:52:31 [Zakim]
TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended
17:52:31 [Zakim]
Attendees were plinss, ht, marcosc_, annevk, JeniT, noah, +1.415.997.aaaa, slightlyoff
17:52:51 [ht]
Noah - confirm you can read/edit that page?
17:53:16 [ht]
Or Anne?
17:53:18 [noah]
Will check, one sec...
17:53:59 [noah]
Sorry, I don't have my wiki password I recall, it was separate from W3C usual login or not?
17:54:07 [noah]
I do have my usual w3c login
17:54:07 [annevk]
it should be W3C login I think
17:54:12 [noah]
Will try
17:54:13 [annevk]
also W3C username
17:54:15 [ht]
My usual W3 logiing worked
17:54:29 [annevk]
wfm too
17:54:30 [ht]
Yes, I had forgotten to use my w3 name
17:55:25 [noah]
Yup, np editing. You should see a small update from me.
17:58:48 [ht]
zakim, bye
17:58:48 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #tagmem
17:58:56 [ht]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:58:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ht
17:59:03 [ht]
rrsagent, bye
17:59:03 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items