<JeniT> ScribeNick: darobin
<scribe> Scribe: Robin Berjon
Date: 15 Mar 2012
NM: regrets next week?
RB: yes, I'm in China
NM: probable cancellation on the 29th, but we'll see later
RESOLUTION: minutes 20120308 approved
NM summarises agenda
NM: we'll look at the f2f agenda and revisit if needed
<trackbot> ACTION-641 -- Noah Mendelsohn to try and find list of review issues relating to HTML5 from earlier discussions -- due 2012-03-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
NM: Larry suggested finding priority list, in the meantime we more or less decided not to do HTML.next
... Robin, how confident about API Privacy?
RB: 10 days earlier?
NM: not hard, but earlier is useful
RB: I'll have it done
... agenda still rough, will take shape based on advice today
... looking for guidance on http+aes
LM: i think things have moved on and that it isn't we shouldn't bother talking about it
JT: didn't we discuss this last week and say yes we should talk about it
NM: won't go into details, but question is: should we schedule a session on this?
JT: what's happened, Larry?
LM: there's an encrypted media task force
NM: JAR talking about are there different classes of URIs, public and private, HT sems to be on side of thinking this is a bad idea
HT: willing to be educated!
NM: so, that's a maybe
JT: the minutes last week say that NM would schedule a discussion this week
LM: there's an encrypted media TF
NM: when do they report?
LM: I don't know; there was a serious proposal from MS, Google, and Cable Labs about this
LM: no, this is in HTML WG
HT: suggest you contact the co-chairs and ask what they expect in terms of timing
<scribe> ACTION: Noah to contact HTML WG co-chairs to ask about timing for output of Encrypted Media TF
<trackbot> Created ACTION-677 - Contact HTML WG co-chairs to ask about timing for output of Encrypted Media TF [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2012-03-22].
<noah> . ACTION: Noah to contact HTML WG chairs to get advice on likely trajectory of work on encryted media
<noah> ACTION-677 Due 2012-03-24
<trackbot> ACTION-677 Contact HTML WG co-chairs to ask about timing for output of Encrypted Media TF due date now 2012-03-24
NM: any other admin?
NM: need for further work?
YL: Larry will be around, Robin can be around as needed
... will contact the AD of app area for a meeting
... I will do this shortly
... expect a meeting at the beginning of the week to discuss what we're doing
LM: another thing that's relevant for TAG is HTTP WG, SPDY, HTTP2
YL: that's on Thu; there's also Mon for HTTPbis
LM: IRI working group will meet, there's been a lot of progress
... Websec meets, of course, and is center of work on web security, CORS, etc.
YL: there are other things around privacy that may be of interest to people, plus general discussion, coordination
LM: applications area directorate (HT is member) usually meets
YL: PLH and TLR will be there, and MarkN
LM: apps area working group will take up MIME registry update
YL: lots of opportunities for impromptu meetings, just need to find slots to make interesting to everybody
LM: worthwhile reviewing document on MIME registry
... lots of progress on IRI
... involvement from I18N WG reviewing the document
... Web Security group meets, things to do there
YL: apps-area, websec (monday)
LM: as well of course as RTCWeb
YL: good summary of the most interesting stuff for us
LM: MarkN has written an ID capturing the work on discussing registries in general, fixing IANA
... there should be good discussion of that
YL: I don't think there's anything schedule for that
LM: yes, MarkN said he was trying to schedule an impromptu on this
<Zakim> jar, you wanted to raise his very annoying HTTP question
JAR: want to get a volunteer for my question to the HTTP WG
JAR: not discuss now, just looking for volunteer
<noah> JAR: Question is whether "representation" is used as a term of art, or more informally
JAR: YL are you volunteering to understand my question?
YL: I'll try to convey, understanding is another problem :)
<jar> I sent the question on Feb 7 to httpbis
<jar> will dig up pointer
YL: given a pointer, I can more easily raise it
JAR: will dig it up
HT: I would encourage you to come up with an example where one usage applies and another doesn't
... to help them understand what the problem is, why does this make a difference?
... sort of a minimal pair approach
JAR: this might only matter to RDF and they might not care about RDF
<Larry> " Happy IANA: Making Large-Scale Registries More User-Friendly"
HT: I don't think that's true
... but you can try something on me before exposing it more widely
NM: okay for IETF
<jar> more detail in blog post pointed from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2012JanMar/0463.html
NM: gathered ideas from last week
NM: look at "Chair's working list of likely agenda topics"
NM reads from agenda
NM: we might want to get into some of the IETF topics and dig in, but we'll see based on report
... Chris is coming
... want to look into whether FragID and MIME is still a priority
... extensive time on Publishing and Linking, maybe careful walk through
JT: it could be useful if Rigo were there
YL: Rigo is not in Sophia anymore
HT: any communication with Rigo should make clear how long we're spending on this
<Larry> i don't think meeting with Rigo should be in the critical path of us making progress on this document
<Larry> if he can meet with us, fine, but let's get on with it
JT: if he happens to be around that would be good, but if not it doesn't make sense
NM: JAR you're still waiting for feedback on httpRange-14 change proposals
JAR: I don't think we should focus we should focus on the baseline document
... but we should try to figure out where this is going
NM: see if we can propose a way forward
JAR: even without change, we should figure out what to do with this
... even if it's say it's not our job
<Ashok> +1 to Jar
NM: I welcome it if you want to lead and sketch out what the agenda should be for your session
JAR: I'll think hard about how to best make use of the time
<Larry> I'd like a clear option to drop this, I don't think things are converging
NM: Robin will have a draft on API Privacy
... AM on local storage?
AM: I've written a draft, it's different from the usual stuff, sent for review to LM and RB to see if it was sensible
<jar> larry, noted
AM: depending on the response, we'll see what discussion there ought to be
NM: so if people like it, we can make it a major topic, if not it'll be brief
NM: will be looking at priorities
... would prefer not to burn a lot of time on this
... but have some nervousness that we only have three priorities
... but we should make sure we're well engaged
... HT mentioned PhiloWeb at WWW2012
... the TAG formally lists issues, are we tracking them, working on them, etc.
... we should look at the relationship between products and issues
... ideally, we should have shepherds for issues
... if any of you want to go through issues, see which can be closed, which are being forgotten about, etc. it would be useful
... will take suggestions now or offline
JT: Robin mentioned getting Dom to talk to us about mobile stuff
NM: he lives close?
RB: yes, but we should make sure that we have something useful to discuss with him
<scribe> ACTION: Robin to ask Dom if there's something he think would be worth discussing with the TAG
<trackbot> Created ACTION-678 - Ask Dom if there's something he think would be worth discussing with the TAG [on Robin Berjon - due 2012-03-22].
<noah> RB: Can Chris Lilley brief us on SVG change to HTML syntax
NM: we can always change the agenda of course
... please send me the reading list quickly
<trackbot> ACTION-641 -- Noah Mendelsohn to try and find list of review issues relating to HTML5 from earlier discussions -- due 2012-03-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
NM: matrix of issues that we thought we might want to look at
... tentatively agreed not to look into this now
<Larry> at most we should forward the list to the HTML working group...
NM: question: look through this list, and if anything in this list makes you feel like we should then raise it
LM: can we ask the list?
NM: the hesitancy is that some of these things might look like different things to different people
... are you saying someone should send this to the HTML WG?
LM: just a pointer
... looking for ways not to spend too much time
NM: that's fine by me
<Larry> that's ok with me not to spend time on this
NM: not hearing a lot of interest in picking this up
... we can close the action
<noah> close ACTION-641
<trackbot> ACTION-641 Try and find list of review issues relating to HTML5 from earlier discussions closed
NM: AM circulated a draft, people will feed back
<trackbot> ACTION-602 -- Noah Mendelsohn to work with IETF liaisons to propose possible TAG participation in IETF Paris -- due 2012-03-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<noah> close ACTION-602
<trackbot> ACTION-602 Work with IETF liaisons to propose possible TAG participation in IETF Paris closed
<trackbot> ACTION-662 -- Robin Berjon to redraft proposed product page on API Minimization (http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/apiminimization.html) -- due 2012-01-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> ACTION-656 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule discussion of possibly getting W3C to invest in technologies for liberal XML processing (e.g. XML5) -- due 2012-01-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW
NM: I believe this came out of the discussion with NDW and HTML/XML TF
... this has already been taken by the XML-ER CG
NM: they're doing it. LM are you happy with where this is?
LM: have there been any comments?
NM: there's a mailing list with active discussion
... active discussion and the start of a spec from AnneVK
<Larry> Can we get a summary of the discussion so far?
<Larry> is the SVG in HTML syntax related to this discussion?
NM: some discussion on requirements and use cases, some browser-related stuff, some HTML-at-front-of-pipeline, some unification, some database error correction, etc.
... give and take on use cases, though Anne has spec and pieces of an implementation
<noah> RB: Anne is not disinclined to change if spec really needs changing
<noah> NM: I meant more that he mostly wants to focus on user-facing use cases, and is less inclined to change for, e.g. database back ends
<noah> RB: Right
NM: Anne targeting UCs that he perceives as high priority, might disagree with some of the other UCs
<noah> RB: And others agree
<ht> I predict TBL will push back on "not punishing users". . .
<Zakim> ht, you wanted to request discussion about goals and use cases at F2F
HT: I think it's worth talking about this, if there's room
... we should think about whether we're happy with the goals of this TF and if we should try to influence them
LM: would you make a proposal?
HT: no, I want to have some time to think about this
<noah> Adding this note to ACTION-656:
<noah> Per HT request on 15 March 2012, I think we should discuss whether we think XML-ER is adopting the right goals and use cases. At F2F if it fits.
HT: if we have any love in our heart of Tim's suggestion to encourage better markup, I'd like to know
<Larry> I'd like to hear some strawman proposals so that we don't go in circles on "Yes, it's a hard problem"
<noah> LM: Encourage Henry to come up with "strawman" proposals. Even something to knock down.
NM: HT, where are we standing on polyglot?
HT: issue about BOMs, and another issue XML Core WG is still working on
NM: wondering if mixing with XML ER is a good idae
HT: probably not
<Larry> I had another category that wasn't "polyglot" I was calling "Multi-view": single content stream that can be viewed as two different types, but mean DIFFERENT but related things
<trackbot> ACTION-669 -- Henry Thompson to review http://www.w3.org/TR/qaframe-spec/#ref-define-practice and see whether TAG needs to do more on references to evolving specs Due: 2012-08-01 -- due 2012-02-09 -- OPEN
<trackbot> ACTION-628 -- Henry Thompson to work with Chris Lilley to bring forward prose for 3023bis wrt generic processing of fragment identifiers which addresses the rdf+xml and xhtml+xml issues -- due 2012-02-14 -- OPEN
<noah> Henry to bump dates on all actions.
<trackbot> ACTION-572 -- Yves Lafon to look at appcache in HTML5 -- due 2012-03-06 -- OPEN
<JeniT> ScribeNick: JeniT
NM: Do we need to talk about this at F2F? Is it combined with web storage?
YL: I think my action is to see whether appcache fits with AM's work on web storage
<darobin> ScribeNick: darobin
<noah> close ACTION-572
<trackbot> ACTION-572 Look at appcache in HTML5 closed
<JeniT> ScribeNick: darobin
YL: check if appcache feeds into AM's document on local storage
<noah> ACTION Yves to check how Appcache should fit into Ashok's storage document - Due 2012-04-02
<trackbot> Created ACTION-679 - check how Appcache should fit into Ashok's storage document [on Yves Lafon - due 2012-04-02].
<trackbot> ACTION-566 -- Yves Lafon to investigate possible liaison or meeting with IETF (maybe IAB) on privacy -- due 2012-01-24 -- OPEN
NM: seems relevant given Paris
YL: I know that Wendy(?) will be there, working on privacy don't know if we want to track that
NM: we can close, depends on if the group wants to work on this
YL: liaising is a good thing, not sure if it should be only about privacy
<noah> close ACTION-566
<trackbot> ACTION-566 Investigate possible liaison or meeting with IETF (maybe IAB) on privacy closed
<trackbot> ACTION-638 -- Yves Lafon to help Noah figure out best ways, if at all, for TAG to participate in IETF paris -- due 2012-02-15 -- OPEN
<noah> ACTION-638 Due 2012-03-26
<trackbot> ACTION-638 Help Noah figure out best ways, if at all, for TAG to participate in IETF paris due date now 2012-03-26
<trackbot> ACTION-594 -- Yves Lafon to with Peter and Henry produce partial revision of fragment id finding -- due 2012-03-13 -- OPEN
NM: seems not to be moving. Thoughts?
<Larry> suggest reviewing http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-appsawg-media-type-regs-03
<noah> Suggest we discuss priority of fragids at F2F
<Larry> "Media Type Specifications and Registration Procedures"
NM: we'll settle that at the f2f
LM: (XXX?) document being revised
NM: better path forward?
NM: we can discuss the priority at the f2f
<trackbot> ACTION-606 -- Peter Linss to invite I18N and other concerned groups to provide written technical input as prep to discussion with the TAG regarding unicode normalization -- due 2012-03-06 -- OPEN
PL: still interest in doing this
<noah> ACTION-606 Due 2012-05-01
<trackbot> ACTION-606 Invite I18N and other concerned groups to provide written technical input as prep to discussion with the TAG regarding unicode normalization due date now 2012-05-01
<trackbot> ACTION-611 -- Larry Masinter to draft initial cut at http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/protocols -- due 2012-02-17 -- OPEN
NM: nothing says relaxing on your vacation like drafting TAG pages!
<noah> ACTION-611 Due 2012-05
<trackbot> ACTION-611 Draft initial cut at http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/protocols due date now 2012-05
<noah> Actually, I said: Nothing makes a relaxing vacation like drafting architecture pages
LM: rethinking the priorities on these
... any opinions? might drop it
NM: it's a good thing for the TAG to contribute to these pages, but only so far I want to push people. Jeni did a great job, but if other people are not doing actions we should close them
<noah> close ACTION-611
<trackbot> ACTION-611 Draft initial cut at http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/protocols closed
<trackbot> ACTION-670 -- Noah Mendelsohn to update product priority list to mark MIMEWeb completed after final product page available -- due 2012-03-01 -- OPEN
<Larry> if Ian wants us to help out with these, he can ask us to re-open
NM: note the closing of these efforts in the product page
<noah> ACTION-670 Due 2012-05-01
<trackbot> ACTION-670 Update product priority list to mark MIMEWeb completed after final product page available due date now 2012-05-01
<Larry> mnot's draft and media type drafts are new since we last talked about this
<trackbot> ACTION-657 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule telcon discussion of possible XML/HTML Unification next steps -- due 2012-03-06 -- OPEN
NM: asked NDW if he had reactions
<noah> ACTION-657 Due 2012-04-10
<trackbot> ACTION-657 Schedule telcon discussion of possible XML/HTML Unification next steps due date now 2012-04-10
<trackbot> ACTION-664 -- Noah Mendelsohn to announce completion of TAG work on Microdata/RDFa as recorded in http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/htmldata.html and to finalize the product page and associated links -- due 2012-01-26 -- OPEN
<noah> ACTION-664 Due 2012-04-17
<trackbot> ACTION-664 Announce completion of TAG work on Microdata/RDFa as recorded in http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/htmldata.html and to finalize the product page and associated links due date now 2012-04-17
JT: feedback is good, will need to come back to it once we have RECs
NM: from TAG POV we can say our work is done
<trackbot> ACTION-617 -- Noah Mendelsohn to work with Yves to take http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/ off the Rec track -- due 2012-01-31 -- OPEN
YL: you mean publishing a note?
... what do you want to do with the content?
NM: leave it as a draft finding, or move it to note
YL: it can't be more than a draft finding, it was a WD
... we can keep as draft and decide if we drop it later
<Zakim> ht, you wanted to say we will _have_ to come back to this
HT: we'll have to come back to this,
... there's been some rethinking around schema namespace documents
... this interacts heavily with fragIDs and media types
... so we'll have to revisit
<noah> Adding a note to the action document saying: Henry notes on 15 March 2012 that we will >have< to come back to this in the context of discussing XML Schema namespace document,
NM: should we do the clerical work to take the old thing off the Rec track in the meantime
YL: I don't think that's necessary
<trackbot> ACTION-617 -- Yves Lafon to work with Noah to take http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/ off the Rec track -- due 2012-06-01 -- OPEN
<trackbot> ACTION-610 -- Jeni Tennison to draft initial cut at http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/metaformats -- due 2012-03-13 -- OPEN
JT: bit from JAR, bit from HT, will put together so can put a draft together
... don't think we need to discuss at f2f
<Larry> ship it
JAR: why not have JT send it off and be done with it
+1 ship it
<Larry> close the action
<Ashok> Ship it!
<noah> ACTION-610 Due 2012-03-27
<trackbot> ACTION-610 Draft initial cut at http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/metaformats due date now 2012-03-27
<trackbot> ACTION-541 -- Jeni Tennison to helped by DKA to produce draft on technical issues relating to copyright/linking -- due 2012-02-21 -- OPEN
<noah> ACTION-541 Due 2012-04-06
<trackbot> ACTION-541 Helped by DKA to produce draft on technical issues relating to copyright/linking due date now 2012-04-06
NM: we've reached the end!
<trackbot> ACTION-636 -- Larry Masinter to update product page for Mime and the Web -- due 2012-02-11 -- OPEN
NM: want me to pick this up from you?
<trackbot> ACTION-636 -- Noah Mendelsohn to update product page for Mime and the Web -- due 2012-02-11 -- OPEN
NM: will do!
<trackbot> ACTION-636 -- Noah Mendelsohn to update product page for Mime and the Web -- due 2012-03-27 -- OPEN