Technical Architecture Group Teleconference

<noah> NM: Putting off approval of F2F minutes until next week

<JeniT> I have read them, and there are errors

<Larry> oh wait, i did look at one and saw an error i wanted to fix

<ht> I have only looked at a tiny bit

Noah: propose a resolution that the TAG will meet in south of France 2-4 april.

<noah> RESOLUTION: the TAG will meet in South of France 2-4 April 2012 hosted by Yves

<dka> +1

<timbl> +1

<noah> NM: Meet in Sophia?

Noah: We will meet at Sofia?

<noah> YL: Most probably

<Larry> +1

Yves: most probably yes.

<timbl> Thank you YL for offering

Noah: Other meeting we need to discuss: TPAC.
... Ashok has announced the draft on application state.

<noah> ACTION-596?

<trackbot> ACTION-596 -- Jonathan Rees to copy edit the finding on application state Due: 2011-09-21 -- due 2011-09-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/596

<noah> close ACTION-596

<trackbot> ACTION-596 Copy edit the finding on application state Due: 2011-09-21 closed

Noah: in relation to that action-596. Any objection to close?
... for those who don't follow public html/xml list, check the public list...

<noah> scribenick: DKA

Noah: Admin items complete...

TPAC

Noah: who's coming?

<timbl> I am

<dka> I'm coming.

<JeniT> I am not

<plinss> I am

Ht: Yes.

<Yves> I am not

<Larry> i will be at TPAC

Noah: Do we want phone or flip charts? Default is no.
... I am working with Ian to encourage the community to nominate candidates for the upcoming TAG election. There is a proposal for a breakout session on the TAG.

HT: possibly better to break up into different sessions and have a BoF at launch.

<noah> Right, Larry, from the F2F minutes: "larry: suggest presentation to AC about TAG priorities and ask for feedback"

Noah: The proposal is to not do a breakout but do a BoF.

<dka> +1 to that

<Larry> The W3C in general gets feedback from the community about priorities, so during TPAC plenary day, it twasn't as important for the TAG to meet

Ht: It would be appropriate for you [noah] to send mail to Ian suggesting that.

Noah: My impression is that the AC agenda is locked down...

<Larry> I think a dinner discussion about TAG priorities and suggests would be fine

<noah> . ACTION: Noah to respond to Ian suggesting a BOF but not a breakout on TAG focus, and ask again about dinner.

<Larry> give Ian more choices of things we might do, collectively or individually, to get more feedback from AC members who don't normally talk to us

<noah> ACTION: Noah to respond to Ian suggesting a BOF but not a breakout on TAG focus, and ask again about dinner. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-tagmem-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-612 - Respond to Ian suggesting a BOF but not a breakout on TAG focus, and ask again about dinner. [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2011-10-06].

Noah: 2 more things related to copyright and deep linking, suggested by DKA.
... First you suggested we have discussion of copyright and deep linking, second you suggested inviting Rigo to join us on Friday.

<noah> DKA: The first proposal was to do a breakout on copyright and linking

<noah> NM: You willing to organize it

<noah> DKA: Yes, but this week is bad.

<noah> ACTION: Appelquist to organize deep linking breakout at TPAC [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-tagmem-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-613 - Organize deep linking breakout at TPAC [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2011-10-06].

Microdata and RDFA

<noah> Email from Thomas Roessler: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Sep/0026.html

<noah> "Based on private consultations of the W3C Team with interested parties, and the community feedback and reactions we got, we concluded that the most productive course of action at this point is to analyze and clarify the relationship between the two formats from a purely technical perspective.

<noah> We have therefore proposed an HTML Data Task Force to the Semantic Web Interest Group (SWIG), with the following charter:"

<noah> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Html-data-tf

Noah: open the floor for discussion on this topic - are we happy with this proposal?
... and then I believe we don't have any open actions on this topic - are we happy with that?

Ht: Anyone know - any existing members of SWIG are on the micoformats side of the [issue]?

<Larry> I have no trouble with the task force itself, but rather the apparent idea that the task force chartered owuld satisfied the TAG's feedback to the HTML working group about their producing two overlapping specs.

<noah> More from TLR's email: "At the same time, we have proposed another SWIG Task Force devoted to practical issues around data schemas for large-scale use in the public Web, the Web Schemas task force:"

Jeni: One of the concerns I had of making the taskforce of the SWIG - the membership of the task force should not be limited to members of SWIG. The other task force proposed in that email - that is very definitely open to all sorts of people. SWIG has traditionally been an RDF places but that doesn't necesarilly limit membership of these task forces.

Yves: the fact that it is attached to SWIG is mostly administrative. The task force is pretty much disconnected from SWIG.

<noah> Do we have any early reading on who will get involved?

Larry: Why wasn't the link to the HTML working group?

Yves: because it was easier maybe?

Jeni: If it was attached to the HTML working group then I believe that the participants would all have to be members of the html working group.

<Larry> ok

<Zakim> Larry, you wanted to repeat what i typed earlier

Noah: What I'm hearing is we've had useful discussion but implicitly the TAG is not asking for changes at this point.

Larry: I'm happy with the task force but wanted to be clear that establishing the task force doesn't address our original concerns to the HTML wg.

Noah: We've raised bugs and those bugs remain unresolved.
... having discussed this, the TAG is not going to do anything at this point.
... having verified there are no actions, what is our comfort level with this?

Jeni: If it helps you with tracking, why not give me an action to report back on progress in a month?

<noah> ACTION: Jeni to report on progress relating to RDFa and Microdata Due 2011-10-27 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-tagmem-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-614 - Report on progress relating to RDFa and Microdata Due 2011-10-27 [on Jeni Tennison - due 2011-10-06].

SPDY

Noah: SPDY is a google proposal to be more aggressive in multiplexing http - but it changes http. It opens a single session and more aggressively interleaves, and tends to do this over SSL.

<Larry> What's the relationship between SPDY and WebSockets?

Noah: I've linked some of the discussion from the agenda. We've heard from Jim Gettys about buffer bloat [this could be related]...
... SPDY is like http 1.2 - it is the protocol that the browser would use when you click on a link. Websockets is the protocol used only by javascript.

<Larry> HTTP-NG was an earlier W3C effort, certainly in scope for W3C to encourage more standards work here

<JeniT> It's worth noting that SPDY is apparently used between the device and cloud in Amazon Silk

Yves: SPDY still has the request-response model.
... it's a profile of http. There are some things removed for efficiency.

Noah: It has content type and response codes...

Yves: yes.

Noah: the recent availability of a Firefox implementation might push adoption...

<noah> DKA: Is the track of this somewhat like Gears, which had a proprietary implementation, and then was replaced by something related but different in the standards?

Yves: some people have asked Google to release SPDY as an internet draft. But as of now there is no submission to the IETF.

<Larry> My impression was that SPDY is already in use between chrome and Google servers?

<Yves> larry, yes it is

Noah: SPDY is intened to be usable by all web traffic...

<Larry> and that Google is responsible for 5% of internet traffic?

Noah: Does anyone know - is it in the firefox base?

<Larry> maybe more now

Jeni: I think it was just experimental.

Noah: At the very least the TAG [should keep tabs on it]

<ht> The blog post about the Firefox immplementation does not mention it being available at all

Noah: this is pretty fundamental to what the Web is.

<Zakim> Larry, you wanted to talk about what the TAG might do

Larry: we could invite someone to come talk to us about SPDY and the requirements it's trying to satisfy.

<noah> Hmm..at least many of us will be in Santa Clara

Larry: I don't think we want to interfere with it. It's more that w3c could be more on top of [the topic].

<dka> +1

Noah: Where are the folks doing SPDY located? Some of us will be in santa clara pretty soon.

Yves: I can check.

Noah: Should we go further and see if we can get some of them to join us monday morning at TPAC?

<dka> +1

<plinss> +1

<Larry> this is something W3C tried to do 10 years ago, and it's great they're doing work here

<JeniT> +1

<timbl> +1

Dan: I do think we should be paying attention to this.

<ht> I take it back -- McManus includes a link to a patch file in his blog post

<noah> ACTION: Yves to check on possible meeting with SPDY folks on 31 Oct at TPAC [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-tagmem-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-615 - Check on possible meeting with SPDY folks on 31 Oct at TPAC [on Yves Lafon - due 2011-10-06].

<ht> The blog post mentions presentations by Google to IETF

Noah: Propose to wrap up on SPDY.

overdue actions

<noah> ACTION-528?

<trackbot> ACTION-528 -- Henry Thompson to create and get consensus on a product page and tracker product page for persistence of names -- due 2011-08-10 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/528

<noah> ACTION-477?

<trackbot> ACTION-477 -- Henry Thompson to organize meeting on persistence of domains -- due 2011-08-10 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/477

HT: I'm meeting with the person who has to agree to the workshop tomorrow.

<noah> HT: Prefer to do ACTION-528 after ACTION-477

<noah> ACTION-477 Due 2011-10-04

<trackbot> ACTION-477 Organize meeting on persistence of domains due date now 2011-10-04

<noah> ACTION-528 Due 2011-10-04

<trackbot> ACTION-528 Create and get consensus on a product page and tracker product page for persistence of names due date now 2011-10-04

<noah> ACTION-547?

<trackbot> ACTION-547 -- Daniel Appelquist to ask on www-tag and Web Apps mailing lists for advice on moving forward with http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/APIMinimization.html -- due 2011-05-17 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/547

<noah> DKA: I think this is done.

<noah> NM: Remind me, where did we leave this after F2F?

<noah> DKA: This was pre-f2f, but I did reach out to people.

<noah> close ACTION-547

<trackbot> ACTION-547 Ask on www-tag and Web Apps mailing lists for advice on moving forward with http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/APIMinimization.html closed

<noah> ACTION-537?

<trackbot> ACTION-537 -- Daniel Appelquist to reach out to Web apps chair to solicit help on framing architecture (incluing terminology, good practice) relating to interaction -- due 2011-07-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/537

<noah> DKA: Reached out, got no feedback. Not sure what to do.

<noah> ACTION-537 Pending Review

<noah> ACTION-566?

<trackbot> ACTION-566 -- Daniel Appelquist to contact Alissa Cooper, organize a future joint discussion on privacy with IAB. -- due 2011-07-19 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/566

<noah> DKA: Got various unclear feedback on this...not quite sure how to proceed

<noah> ACTION-566 Pending Review

<noah> ACTION-604?

<trackbot> ACTION-604 -- Daniel Appelquist to propose TPAC breakout on copyright and linking -- due 2011-09-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/604

<noah> ACTION-613?

<trackbot> ACTION-613 -- Daniel Appelquist to organize deep linking breakout at TPAC -- due 2011-10-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/613

<noah> close ACTION-604

<trackbot> ACTION-604 Propose TPAC breakout on copyright and linking closed

<noah> ACTION-544?

<trackbot> ACTION-544 -- Daniel Appelquist to propose TAG input, if any, to possible workshop on packaged Web apps -- due 2011-08-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/544

<noah> NM: Is this the post-TPAC workshop

<noah> DKA: Yes.

<noah> NM: I'm attending, but not bringing any particular TAG story.

<noah> DKA: I think we said at F2F that TAG didn't need a TAG mission statement.

<noah> close ACTION-544

<trackbot> ACTION-544 Propose TAG input, if any, to possible workshop on packaged Web apps closed

<noah> ACTION-480?

<trackbot> ACTION-480 -- Daniel Appelquist to draft overview document framing Web applications as opposed to traditional Web of documents -- due 2011-07-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/480

<noah> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/480/edit

<timbl> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/postponed

<noah> ACTION-280 Due 2011-03-20

<trackbot> ACTION-280 (with John K) to enumerate some CSRF scenarios discussed in Jun in Cambridge due date now 2011-03-20

<noah> ACTION-514?

<trackbot> ACTION-514 -- Daniel Appelquist to draft finding on API minimization -- due 2011-07-12 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/514

<noah> ACTION-514 Due 2011-10-11

<trackbot> ACTION-514 Draft finding on API minimization due date now 2011-10-11

<noah> ACTION-537?

<trackbot> ACTION-537 -- Daniel Appelquist to reach out to Web apps chair to solicit help on framing architecture (incluing terminology, good practice) relating to interaction -- due 2011-07-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/537

<noah> ACTION-480?

<trackbot> ACTION-480 -- Daniel Appelquist to draft overview document framing Web applications as opposed to traditional Web of documents -- due 2011-07-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/480

Pending Review Actions

<noah> ACTION-350?

<trackbot> ACTION-350 -- Henry Thompson to revise http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Oct/0075.html based on feedback on www-tag and the feedback from TAG f2f 2009-12-09 discussion -- due 2011-08-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/350

<noah> close ACTION-350

<trackbot> ACTION-350 Revise http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Oct/0075.html based on feedback on www-tag and the feedback from TAG f2f 2009-12-09 discussion closed

<noah> HT: I just ran out of time for 350

Noah: larry is this something you want to spend time on?

Larry: is there something we can do to publish this as a note if not a finding?

Noah: looking at the record, there was pretty substantial discussion following henry's email. We should decide whether we want to push this forward or not. Volunteers?
... the context for this - where were specifications, e.g xml schema...
... there were working groups that were trying to make references to other specs...
... if we get back to this we want to be careful about keeping to that scope. This is about telling people who write specs what good practices are.

<jar> what remains to be done?

Larry: assign the action to me.

<noah> Assigning ACTION-350 to Larry

<noah> ACTION-508?

<trackbot> ACTION-508 -- Larry Masinter to draft proposed bug report against HTML5 media type registration regarding interpretation of fragid in HTML-based AJAX apps -- due 2011-07-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/508

<noah> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13257

<noah> submitted as a bug, please comment on the bug if you have more to say

Noah: I think we can close this action. Larry?

<noah> close ACTION-508

<trackbot> ACTION-508 Draft proposed bug report against HTML5 media type registration regarding interpretation of fragid in HTML-based AJAX apps closed

<noah> ACTION-509?

<trackbot> ACTION-509 -- Jonathan Rees to communicate with RDFa WG regarding documenting the fragid / media type issue -- due 2011-09-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/509

JAR: I can't do anything else on this. So i set it pending review.

Noah: should we bump the date?

JAR: we have to have discussion or someone has to do more analysis or something...

Noah: We should schedule some telcon discussion?

JAR: Yes.

<noah> ACTION-539?

<trackbot> ACTION-539 -- Larry Masinter to coordinate with Thomas Roessler about the registries issue background -- due 2011-03-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/539

<noah> LM: Overtaken

<noah> close ACTION-539

<trackbot> ACTION-539 Coordinate with Thomas Roessler about the registries issue background closed

<noah> action-549?

<trackbot> ACTION-549 -- Larry Masinter to (with help from Henry and Yves) make proposals for topics to be pursued with IAB -- due 2011-06-02 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/549

<noah> "the topics were proposed, the meeting happened, this action is done

<noah> Larry Masinter, 14 Jul 2011, 17:56:48"

<noah> close ACTION-549

<trackbot> ACTION-549 (with help from Henry and Yves) make proposals for topics to be pursued with IAB closed

<noah> ACTION-568?

<trackbot> ACTION-568 -- Noah Mendelsohn to draft note for Jeff Jaffe listing 5 top TAG priorities as trackable items. -- due 2011-07-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/568

Noah: I believe I have an action to talk to our liaisons about participation in upcoming IETF meetings.

<noah> Reopening, bumping due date

<noah> ACTION-568?

<trackbot> ACTION-568 -- Noah Mendelsohn to draft note for Jeff Jaffe listing 5 top TAG priorities as trackable items. -- due 2011-10-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/568

<noah> ACTION-572?

<trackbot> ACTION-572 -- Yves Lafon to look at appcache in HTML5 -- due 2011-07-29 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/572

<noah> Comments say: "Discuss when Dan is avaialble, but not at F2F. Marking PENDING REVIEW per discussion on 11 Aug 2011"

<noah> ACTION-572?

<trackbot> ACTION-572 -- Yves Lafon to look at appcache in HTML5 -- due 2011-10-04 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/572

<noah> ACTION-580?

<trackbot> ACTION-580 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule discussion (on 4 Aug 2011) of resonses to TAG concerns expressed under ACTION-510, e.g. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011May/0364.html -- due 2011-08-02 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/580

<noah> I did it.

<noah> close ACTION-580

<trackbot> ACTION-580 Schedule discussion (on 4 Aug 2011) of resonses to TAG concerns expressed under ACTION-510, e.g. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011May/0364.html closed

<noah> ACTION-584?

<trackbot> ACTION-584 -- Noah Mendelsohn to ask Norm to participate in next TAG call regarding clarifying what the TAG wants out of the task force. -- due 2011-08-30 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/584

<noah> close ACTION-584

<trackbot> ACTION-584 Ask Norm to participate in next TAG call regarding clarifying what the TAG wants out of the task force. closed

<noah> ACTION-585?

<trackbot> ACTION-585 -- Larry Masinter to meet with Yves prior to the IETF document to review this draft-freed-media-type-regs-00. -- due 2011-07-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/585

<noah> "Will tee up draft-freed-media-type-reg as another MIME and Web document for TAG to review."

<noah> close ACTION-585?

<Larry> i only set things "pending revie" if think they can be closed

Noah: 3/4 of these overdue actions we could deal with if people would deal with their own actions... so please review your actions in the future.
... Ajourned.