trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Date: 07 October 2010

<scribe> scribe: Jonathan Rees

<scribe> scribenick: jar

Convene

Next meeting 14 Oct, but somewhat at risk

Approve minutes of prior meeting(s)

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/09/30-minutes.html

jar: What does 'DS' stand for?

<DKA> Yep.

Noah has changed DS to distributed extensibility

RESOLUTION: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/09/30-minutes.html approved with correction to 'DS'

Administrative items

<masinter> issue-50?

<trackbot> ISSUE-50 -- URIs, URNs, "location independent" naming systems and associated registries for naming on the Web -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/50

<ht> +1 to that topic

<noah> ACTION-444?

<trackbot> ACTION-444 -- Jonathan Rees to draft a white paper on link persistence -- due 2010-10-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/444

jar: I think I have new ways to look at this, and have received some encouragement from Larry and Henry

noah: Other writings in progress [for F2F]?

masinter: I will gather references for additional metadata-related resources

<masinter> I'll gather references for metadata discussion, but would appreciate pointers

<noah> ACTION-465?

<trackbot> ACTION-465 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule F2F discussion of ACTION-282, "which metadata mechanisms to use when". Get reading list from Larry and www-tag. -- due 2010-10-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/465

<masinter> issue-63?

<trackbot> ISSUE-63 -- Metadata Architecture for the Web -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/63

larry, go through the notes for ISSUE-63 (I think) - I've dumped links there.

<noah> JAR: For Larry, when I come across metadata things, I've been trying to tag them with ISSUE-63

<masinter> ok, i'll sort through those

F2F Visitor Session

<noah> ACTION-355?

<trackbot> ACTION-355 -- John Kemp to explore the degree to which AWWW and associated findings tell the interaction story for Web Applications -- due 2010-10-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/355

noah: John K regrets lack of progress on interaction story, his TAG work has been unexpectedly preempted

ACTION-454?

<trackbot> ACTION-454 -- Daniel Appelquist to take lead in organizing outside contacts for TAG F2F -- due 2010-10-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/454

<noah> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2010Oct/0008.html

DKA: Not sure why I'm not getting through [to invitees]
... JAR made a guest suggestion, but I would like more information

(discussion of who to invite, and how to reach)

<Zakim> ht, you wanted to suggest trying other routes

<noah> ACTION: Noah to ask Raman to set up phone at F2F [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-tagmem-irc]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-474 - Ask Raman to set up phone at F2F [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2010-10-14].

TPAC meeting with IETF

IETF / TAG meeting at 2pm Thursday French local time

jar: What's happening Thu vs. Fri?

noah: Fri was Norm Walsh
... JAR please work with Yves to decide whether a phone is needed.

<masinter> suggest for IETF meeting reviewing MIME and Web, IRI, other liaison issues, way forward in IETF

<masinter> maybe post agenda on W3C/IETF liaison list?

<Yves> websec as well

<Yves> (new name for hasmat)

HTML 5 / Distributed Extensibility

issue-41?

<trackbot> ISSUE-41 -- What are good practices for designing extensible languages and for handling versioning? -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/41

<noah> ACTON-473?

<noah> ACTION-473?

<trackbot> ACTION-473 -- Noah Mendelsohn to draft possible TAG response on HTML extensibility -- due 2010-10-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/473

<noah> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2010Oct/0007.html

noah: HTML WG is running a survey , "like SVG" vs. "no edit"
... looking for go-ahead to send email [linked above]

(jar was reading the email and missed HT's comment. sorry)

ht: Should we say something pointed and contrary, as opposed to a general purpose "we prefer DE" criticism? (scribe uncertainty)

<masinter> a stronger statement might also call for continued, serious, additional W3C work on DE, independently of what HTML WG can agree to for HTML5 LC

<noah> Larry, do you have a proposed sentence? There is value in getting this now to a point where we can approve.

<noah> The note says in para #1" two options for HTML extensibility, the options being known

<noah> > informally as "like SVG" [2] and "zero edit" [3]

<noah> I think that covers it for our purposes: we can use those terms in the remainder of the note.

<ht> We think the like-SVG proposal not only provides the basis for DE, it has the advantage of doing so in a way which makes good use of the already-in-place support for namespaces in the DOM, while placing virtually all the burden of using the proposed mechanism on those who chose to use it, since namespace-awareness is already necessary for SVG and MathML.

<noah> We think the like-SVG proposal provides the basis for DE placing virtually all the burden of using the proposed mechanism on those who chose to use it, since namespace-awareness is already necessary for SVG and MathML.

<masinter> Distributed extensibility is an important area for managing the evolution of web content: allowing vendors to experiment with additions before standardization while controlling those extensions. We understand that the details of how to accomplish this are difficult, and that "like SVG" may be the best we can accomplish for HTML at this time. However, we support continued, serious, additional W3C work on DE, independently of what can be

<masinter> accomplished for HTML5 "last call".

<noah> Implicitly, we believe that maintaining support for namespaces in the DOM is, on balance, worthwhile.

<Zakim> masinter, you wanted to discuss endorsing more work rather than specifically namespaces

<noah> HT: Endorses Larry's long quote.

<noah> We are about to endorse a proposal that does use namespaces. Why say more?

<noah> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2010Oct/0006.html

(discussion of wording and content of email)

<ht> We think the like-SVG proposal provides the basis for DE, with the additional benefit of placing virtually all the burden of using the proposed mechanism on those who chose to use it, since namespace-awareness is already necessary for SVG and MathML.

<noah> On balance, the TAG believes that the "like SVG" option is far superior to

<noah> "zero-edit", and we hope that it will be adopted by the HTML working group.

<noah> It is, of course, a compromise in a number of dimensions, but we feel

<noah> that it represents a significant positive and pragmatic step toward

<noah> providing the needed extensibility.

<noah> We think the like-SVG proposal provides the basis for DE, with the additional benefit of placing virtually all the burden of using the proposed mechanism on those who chose to use it, since namespace-awareness is already necessary for SVG and MathML.

jar: please remove the word "far"

<noah> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2010Oct/0010.html

<DKA> I like it.

noah: Draft is in my emacs buffer, but almost same as tag email linked above. What does everyone think?
... I think there are other uses for DE [besides what LM articulated]?

<masinter> ok

noah: Leave out part after the colon?

<DKA> +1 to leaving out the stuff after the colon.

noah: Sounds like people on the call are OK with this version.

<DKA> +1 to ht

F2F Agenda Planning

<noah> For F2F agenda, see: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/10/07-agenda

Noah will dispose of the email appropriately.

<noah> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/10/07-agenda#F2FAgenda

<noah> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/10/19-agenda.html

noah: What do you all think of the agenda?

masinter: I need feedback on sniffing (ACTION-472) *before* the F2F. [Please.]

action-472?

<trackbot> ACTION-472 -- Larry Masinter to update the mime-draft, due 2010-10-12 -- due 2010-10-07 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/472

masinter: Correction: I am not hosting the IRI meeting, I'm just attending it.
... It's an open meeting (telecon)

noah: Maybe Raman will let us stay in the room and use speakerphone there.

<noah> But he's warned us likely not.

<masinter> on MIME and the web document, I will have a new document submitted soon, would appreciate any new input ASAP

Privacy Workshop

<noah> ACTION-460?

<trackbot> ACTION-460 -- Daniel Appelquist to coordinate with IAB regarding next steps on privacy policy -- due 2010-10-12 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/460

<noah> ACTION-470?

<trackbot> ACTION-470 -- Noah Mendelsohn to ask Thomas about TAG involvement in privacy workshop -- due 2010-09-30 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/470

<DKA> Nothing to report on 460.

<masinter> i might be interested also, in the role as TAG member

DKA: Will follow up with Thomas R

Action item review

<noah> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/pendingreview

<noah> ACTION-469?

<trackbot> ACTION-469 -- Noah Mendelsohn to offer to organizers of AC to do short session answering questions and/or giving TAG status report -- due 2010-09-30 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/469

<noah> Note was sent 29 Sept.

<noah> close ACTION-469

<trackbot> ACTION-469 Offer to organizers of AC to do short session answering questions and/or giving TAG status report closed

<noah> ACTION-473?

<trackbot> ACTION-473 -- Noah Mendelsohn to draft possible TAG response on HTML extensibility -- due 2010-10-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/473

noah: Request permission to close this when the note goes out.

(no objection)

<noah> Overdue by person: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/overdue?sort=due

<noah> ACTION-390?

<trackbot> ACTION-390 -- Daniel Appelquist to review ISSUE-58 and suggest next steps -- due 2010-05-25 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/390

<DKA> issue-58?

<trackbot> ISSUE-58 -- Scalability of URI Access to Resources -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/58

<DKA> action-434?

<trackbot> ACTION-434 -- Daniel Appelquist to prepare discussion of structure of what we want to do about web apps architecture... -- due 2010-05-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/434

<noah> That could be important.

<noah> I really want the Web apps stuff to be a main theme here (notwithstanding that we're getting a bit less writing than I had hoped)

masinter: Synchronization, security issues - I may have some input -

noah: We have to do a gut check on where we're going with this web apps stuff. Action 434 tries to take this top down.
... If you can give serious thought that would be great ... I would rather not schedule a session just because we said we would
... can you let us know over the next week how it's coming together?

DKA: sure

action-390?

<trackbot> ACTION-390 -- Daniel Appelquist to review ISSUE-58 and suggest next steps -- due 2010-05-25 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/390

DKA: How about the F2F

action-390 due 2010-10-19

<trackbot> ACTION-390 Review ISSUE-58 and suggest next steps due date now 2010-10-19

<noah> ACTION-390?

<trackbot> ACTION-390 -- Daniel Appelquist to review ISSUE-58 and suggest next steps -- due 2010-10-18 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/390

<noah> ACTION-434 Due 2010-10-18

<trackbot> ACTION-434 Prepare discussion of structure of what we want to do about web apps architecture... due date now 2010-10-18

<noah> ACTION-461?

<trackbot> ACTION-461 -- Daniel Appelquist to draft "finding" on Web Apps API design -- due 2010-09-09 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/461

<noah> ACTION-461 Due 2010-10-31

<trackbot> ACTION-461 Draft "finding" on Web Apps API design due date now 2010-10-31

<noah> ACTION-439?

<trackbot> ACTION-439 -- Daniel Appelquist to introduce signature-based approaches to access control -- due 2010-06-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/439

<noah> Came from June 2010 F2F: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Jun/0106.html

<noah> Discussion related to widgets

DKA: 439 had to do with how widgets use signatures... need to relate to the relevant widget-signature document

<noah> ACTION-439 due 2010-10-14

<trackbot> ACTION-439 Introduce signature-based approaches to access control due date now 2010-10-14

<noah> ACTION-462?

<trackbot> ACTION-462 -- Yves Lafon to write draft of best practices on redirection for secondary resources (with help from Tim) -- due 2010-10-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/462

<noah> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Oct/0003.html

<noah> ACTION-462 PENDING REVIEW

noah: Discuss 462 at F2F?

<noah> ACTION-448

<noah> Yes, we agreed to discuss 462 at the F2F

<noah> ACTION-448?

<trackbot> ACTION-448 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule discussion of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jun/0394.html on 26 August (followup to 24 June and 12 August discussion) -- due 2010-10-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/448

Barth email on URL specs

<noah> ACTION-442 Due 2010-10-12

<trackbot> ACTION-442 Try and integrate NM and TVRs words into a coherent draft due date now 2010-10-12

<noah> ACTION-448 Due 2010-10-12

<trackbot> ACTION-448 Schedule discussion of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jun/0394.html on 26 August (followup to 24 June and 12 August discussion) due date now 2010-10-12

<noah> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/open?sort=owner

<noah> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/overdue?sort=owner

<noah> ACTION-459?

<trackbot> ACTION-459 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule F2F discussion of IRIbis status and Larry's proposal -- due 2010-10-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/459

masinter: Will give a 5 minute report on where we are.

<noah> ACTION-465?

<trackbot> ACTION-465 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule F2F discussion of ACTION-282, "which metadata mechanisms to use when". Get reading list from Larry and www-tag. -- due 2010-10-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/465

ADJOURNED