<scribe> scribenick: masinter
<scribe> scribe: Larry Masinter
Date: 11 March 2010
Minutes for last week not ready
Next phone conference cancelled, next meeting at F2F
Main topic today: F2F agenda http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/03/24-agenda.html
noah: HTML WG chairs will be joining. Best time for them will be early wednesday. Will convene at 9 without them, 9:30-10 they will join. Paul Cotton, maybe Sam, not Maciej.
<DanC> Interview: Paul Cotton on Microsoft Participation in the W3C HTML Working Group
<DanC> FYI
Larry: Is the topic technical or process?
Noah: whatever we want; may extend to after lunch
danc: want to ask them about their plan for last call/CR
Noah: Want to list this in the agenda
noah: took liberty to invite him to pop into TAG meetings any time
<DanC> (if you want to see what's been on Jeff's mind technically, http://securenaturalcommunications.blogspot.com/ is pretty interesting)
Larry: Note topic suggestion in email
<Danc> http://www.w3.org/mid/005201cabff1$140b9f50$3c22ddf0$@org
Larry: "I don't think there was a lot of effect to show for the TAG time invested in the topics listed in: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/sum03.html"
<noah> +1 if you share larry's concern
<jar> +1 share larry's feelings (or feelings similar to them)
<noah> My vote is either -1 or 0
<johnk> +1 also to Larry
<ht> 0 to Larry
<DanC> no strong feelings
<Ashok> 0
<DanC> (I'm curious about how noah's 393 got to be pending review, but don't need to nail it down now)
(discussion of agenda items)
(changed title to reflect ISSUE-54)
discussion about decentralized extensibility, relationship to language versioning
issue-54?
<trackbot> ISSUE-54 -- Tag soup integration -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/54
issue-41?
<trackbot> ISSUE-41 -- What are good practices for designing extensible languages and for handling versioning? -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/41
<DanC> (editorial, under 4: "# Note from Dan reporting some progress" should be tucked under ACTION-364)
Larry: I wonder whether 4 and 5 should be reorganized to match how the topics are being discussed in HTML WG
... please review http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html
... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jan/0015.html
... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0718.html
... change proposal and counter-proposal
... my suggestion is that HTML5 discussions should be aligned with HTML5 issues
<DanC> HTML WG issue 4 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/4
<DanC> HTML Versioning and DOCTYPEs
<DanC> and http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/53 Need to update media type registrations
Larry: note that issue 53 is being discussed in HTML WG, but without link to issue
... the email in HTML WG is discussing "registration of text/html", but the email isn't linked from their 53 tracker item
<DanC> ah... right... Re: Re-registration of text/html http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Mar/thread.html#msg272
<DanC> larry, on that thread, I think that's covered by my action TAG ACTION-364
action-364?
<trackbot> ACTION-364 -- Dan Connolly to ask HTML WG team contacts to make a change proposal re issue-53 mediatypereg informed by HT's analysis and today's discussion -- due 2010-02-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/364
<DanC> ACTION-113 due 1 Apr
<trackbot> ACTION-113 HT to a) revise composition.pdf to take account of suggestions from Tim & Jonathan and feedback from email and b) produce a new version of the Elaborated Infoset finding, possibly incorporating some of the PDF due date now 1 Apr
<johnk> I'm happy with my part of it
<DanC> action-399?
<trackbot> ACTION-399 -- John Kemp to prepare F2F discussion of sniffing, being sure to check status of other pertinent actions -- due 2010-03-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/399
<noah> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/399
<DanC> action-399 due 24 Mar
<trackbot> ACTION-399 Prepare F2F discussion of sniffing, being sure to check status of other pertinent actions due date now 24 Mar
johnk: will be prepared, but will be last minute
action-386?
<trackbot> ACTION-386 -- Larry Masinter to review draft-barth-sniff-4 and send comments, cc TAG -- due 2010-04-08 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/386
<DanC> ACTION-387 due 24 March
<trackbot> ACTION-387 Review JK/NM's stuff on sniffing, authoritative metadata, self-describing web, incl. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Jan/0025.html due date now 24 March
Larry: I've got a subtopic for item 6. Just sent an email. Can we make progress on the smaller issue.
<noah> Chair thinks this in relation to Larry's ACTION-386
Larry: There seems to be an assumption on the part of some that data has an intrinsic type
Noah: Do you believe that?
Larry: I don't tend to believe it, and it leads the discussion to rest on a false assumption.
... A bag of bits doesn't have a type until you assign one
<DanC> (rephrasing the terminology _is_ addressing the issue)
<DanC> (ah... found it... "What is 'the type of X' if X doesn't have a declared type? " ... highligting in tracker)
nm: will add the linked email to the agenda for f2f
<noah> NM: I will add a link to your email with a heads up about bags of bits not having types, all under existing agenda item 6
<noah> ACTION-341: on - Noah Mendelsohn - Follow up with Thomas about security review activities for HTML5 - Due: 2010-03-26 - OPEN
<trackbot> ACTION-341 Follow up with Thomas about security review activities for HTML5 notes added
noah: would you like me to add metadataURI-31 secrets in URIs to discuss with TLR?
jar: something should be prepared to be reviewed
noah: goals of session should be frame TAG analysis that would be suitable input for review by security community?
<DanC> (that suggests *not* moving the due date on noah's ACTION-341 before the F2F)
<DanC> ACTION-341: see also ISSUE-31 (metadatainURI-31)
<trackbot> ACTION-341 Follow up with Thomas about security review activities for HTML5 notes added
noah: what i'll try to do under 341 and point out that the F2F upcoming and ask for input
jar: URIs containing secrets is part of a draft that Tyler published within WebApps. "PowerBox"
noah: powerbox was specific Google issue
<DanC> (I don't have any reason to belive that tlr read the PowerBox thing)
jar: there's a link; this issue is probably on TLR radar
<noah> NM: Powerbox is a bigger thing, with its own goals and functions -- are you saying that it has some webkey like stuff somewhere in it?
<DanC> ACTION-341 due Friday
<trackbot> ACTION-341 Follow up with Thomas about security review activities for HTML5 due date now Friday
Larry: I propose we add "Security Coordination" to agenda discussion with Jaffe
<DanC> http://securenaturalcommunications.blogspot.com/
<DanC> ^ suggest linking that nearby
Larry I didn't read speaks_for has having much to do with metadata
<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to note the email traffic about speaks_for suggests it doesn't merit ftf time
noah: Happy to remove reference to "Metadata" from 8
<DanC> (yeah, the connection to metadata is... nevermind)
jar: good idea, doesn't have much to do with metadata
noah: (speaking for myself) We shouldn't spend a lot of time on the details of the formalism
... do they think they can make progress about HTTP
... is the next step F2F time?
danc: will go into the details
<DanC> I suppose 383 is done to my satisfaction, yeah
masinter: if we have any discussion at F2F on this, we should discuss meta-issue of how to get this done
Larry: I wish that item 8 didn't have "HTTP" in the title. This should be "network access semantics", not "HTTP"; it doesn't matter if the data is distributed by HTTP, FTP, sneakernet, orbittorrent
noah: discussion, not on F2F agenda, kill this as topic
ashok: could we get webapps people to look at this as a sanity check?
... can ask Art Barstow
larry: send it to webapps working group?
<scribe> ACTION: Ashok to ask WebApps working group to review John Kemp's taxonomy
<trackbot> Created ACTION-401 - Ask WebApps working group to review John Kemp's taxonomy [on Ashok Malhotra - due 2010-03-18].
ashok: This can be discussed with the third item in John's taxonomy:
Dynamic Client-side mashup.
ashok: There has been some mail on this. We should talk to Thomas Roessler and decide how to proceed.
action-351?
<trackbot> ACTION-351 -- Henry S. Thompson to look into a workshop on persistence... perhaps the June 2010 timeframe -- due 2010-03-16 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/351
<ht> wrt URNsAndRegistries-50
issue-50?
<trackbot> ISSUE-50 -- URIs, URNs, "location independent" naming systems and associated registries for naming on the Web -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/50
ht: would like this on the agenda, and JAR and HT had a discussion for agenda
<scribe> ACTION: JAR to summarize message he sent to HT about URNs and registries and put it on the agenda
<trackbot> Created ACTION-402 - Summarize message to HT and put it on the agenda [on Jonathan Rees - due 2010-03-18].
action 402 about URNs and Registries
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 402
action-351?
<trackbot> ACTION-351 -- Henry S. Thompson to look into a workshop on persistence... perhaps the June 2010 timeframe -- due 2010-03-16 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/351
ht: continuing to think about offering to host in june
i'm happy to drop this item and also to see action-377 closed
<noah> CLOSE ACTION-377
<trackbot> ACTION-377 Frame discussion about how TAG communicated with WGs closed
noah: I will kill off Agenda item 14
not sure this needs tag discussion
danc: timing is important
discussion of future meetings
noah: please look at tentative agenda
<DanC> ACTION-389: LMM proposes to withdraw; DanC wants to think about it a bit
<trackbot> ACTION-389 Take Dan's proposal on resource/representation and turn it into a change proposal notes added