[Bug 24654] New: Add definition of ”layout table” and make it equal to tables or role=presentation

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24654

            Bug ID: 24654
           Summary: Add definition of ”layout table”  and make it equal to
                    tables or role=presentation
           Product: HTML WG
           Version: unspecified
          Hardware: PC
               URL: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/tabular-d
                    ata.html#attr-table-border
                OS: All
            Status: NEW
          Keywords: a11y
          Severity: normal
          Priority: P2
         Component: HTML5 spec
          Assignee: dave.null@w3.org
          Reporter: xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no
        QA Contact: public-html-bugzilla@w3.org
                CC: eoconnor@apple.com, faulkner.steve@gmail.com,
                    master.skywalker.88@gmail.com, mike@w3.org,
                    public-html-admin@w3.org,
                    public-html-wg-issue-tracking@w3.org, robin@w3.org,
                    rubys@intertwingly.net,
                    xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no

PROPOSAL:

  Add a definition of the term ”layout table” and include in the
  definition that it designates table elements whose ARIA role has
  been declared or determined to be "presentation".

    PURPOSE: 

  Avoid that e.g. <table role=grid> is viewed as a ”layout table”,
  which is a real point of confusion (see below).

BACKGROUND:

  This bug has 3 maximes as its starting point:

  1) The spec permits <table> to take role="presentation". 

  2) When the spec uses the term ”layout table”, it designates
     table elements that have - or justifiably could have had
     - role="presentation" applied to them. 

  3) Applying role="presentation" (or using heuristics to determine
     the table to have role=presentation), is a method for of
     *overruling* the table element’s default semantics.

  HOWEVER: Recently there have been various debates in the HTMLWG space where
the meaning of ”layout table” was questioned and/or stretched to encompasse any
table for which its native ”role” has been - or could have been - overruled. 

See the thread ”revisiting advice in HTML on tables used for layout”
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2014Jan/0155.html>, perhaps
especially see the comments from Jukka, who also pointed out that there is no
definition of the term. Another relevant place to look is the recent reignated
debate about the table@border attribute - for instance see some of Andrea
Rendine’s remark (the third comment) about use of <table> as a replacement for
<dl> in bug 24647 <https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24647#c3>.

By this understanding of the term, doing e.g. <table role="grid"> would mean
that the table should be seen as a ”layout table”.

>From one angle, viewing <table role="grid"> as a “layout table” is very much to
the point. However, since what the spec means really are tables of
role=presentation, it mostly blurs the discussion to apply the term ”layout
table” to every table were its default role has been - or could have been -
overruled.

For instance, while most presentational tables should not have borders around
its cells (no via CSS and not via @border attribute either), for a table of
role=grid, borders - or other kinds of highlighting of the cells - probably
makes sense. (Just try a google search for images of ”grid” and see how many
”chess tables” it returns:
<https://www.google.no/search?q=grid&client=firefox-a&hs=jCf&rls=org.mozilla:nn-NO:official&channel=fflb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=qeT8UvDFCsi_ygPww4CgAQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1680&bih=920>)

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Received on Thursday, 13 February 2014 15:41:11 UTC