Re: [Minutes] 2016-09-23

Hi Phil,
thanks for the minutes.
I'm not among the "Present" attendees while I'm listed as Scribe, and I was there :)

All the best,
Serena



----- Mail original -----
> De: "Phil Archer" <phila@w3.org>
> À: "POE WG" <public-poe-wg@w3.org>
> Envoyé: Vendredi 23 Septembre 2016 18:07:29
> Objet: [Minutes] 2016-09-23
> 
> The minutes of today's meeting (TPAC day 2) are at
> https://www.w3.org/2016/09/23-poe-minutes and below as text
> 
>     [1]W3C
> 
>        [1] http://www.w3.org/
> 
>    Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference
> 
> 23 Sep 2016
> 
> Attendees
> 
>     Present
>            benw, bob, ivan, paulj, renato, sabrina, simonstey,
>            victor_, victor, phila, michaelS
> 
>     Regrets
>     Chair
>            Ben
> 
>     Scribe
>            paulj, victor, Serena
> 
> Contents
> 
>       * [2]Topics
>           1. [3]POE.R.V.10 Add terms to the Roles of a Party
>              Vocabulary
>           2. [4]POE.R.V.11 New Party Category Vocabulary
>           3. [5]POE.R.V.12 New Asset Category Vocabulary
>           4. [6]POE.R.V.13 Temporal Constraint
>           5. [7]POE.R.V.14 Using time spans in Temporal Constraints
>           6. [8]POE.R.V.15 Reference to Source License
>           7. [9]POE.R.E.01 Referring to external resources for
>              defining payment fees
>           8. [10]POE.R.E.02 Prove that a list of existing licenses
>              can be expressed/encoded
>           9. [11]Define rules for matching permissions/prohibitions
>              against specific use cases
>          10. [12]Define a language for controlling processing
>              policies
>          11. [13]Define processing rules for versioned policies
>          12. [14]Support to auto-generate a policy from a template
>              plus provided parameter values
>          13. [15]Guidance on Rights Assignments through Aggregation
>              and Derivation
>          14. [16]Guidance on Specifying Subsets of Assets
>          15. [17]Guidance on Conflicting Permissions
>          16. [18]Make policies accessible by URL
>          17. [19]POE.R.DM.06 Support Relative Time Constraint
>          18. [20]Digital Publishing IG
>          19. [21]POE.UC.22: Enhance discovery of library collection
>              materials
>          20. [22]POE.UC.24: Rights licensing data for e-book
>              subscription services
>          21. [23]POE.UC.25: Improve internal rights management
>              systems (large book publishers)
>          22. [24]POE.UC.26: Improve efficiency of foreign rights
>              transactions (University Press)
>          23. [25]POE.UC.27: Disambiguate access permission from
>              copyright permission (University Press)
>          24. [26]POE.UC.28: Library collection management and
>              access
>          25. [27]POE.UC.29: Rights licensing for custom textbook
>              publishing (higher education publishers)
>          26. [28]Formal Semantics Note
>          27. [29]general data protection regulation - Sabrina
>          28. [30]Horizontal Reviews
>       * [31]Summary of Action Items
>       * [32]Summary of Resolutions
>       __________________________________________________________
> 
>     <renato> scribe: paulj
> 
> POE.R.V.10 Add terms to the Roles of a Party Vocabulary
> 
>     renato: Last ten vocab items to process now
> 
>     looking at POE-RV10
> 
>     victor_: need to specify both ends of compensation payment
> 
>     <simonstey> +q
> 
>     <ivan> trackbot, start telcon
> 
>     RESOLUTION: POE.R.V.10 accepted
> 
>     <renato> chair: Ben
> 
> POE.R.V.11 New Party Category Vocabulary
> 
>     victor_: As discussed yesterday, need to associate constraints
>     with a party.
>     ... this is in hand so the requirement is covered
> 
>     RESOLUTION: POE.R.V.11 satisfied
> 
> POE.R.V.12 New Asset Category Vocabulary
> 
>     RESOLUTION: POE.R.V.12 Satisfied
> 
> POE.R.V.13 Temporal Constraint
> 
>     <simonstey> scribe: paulj
> 
> POE.R.V.14 Using time spans in Temporal Constraints
> 
> POE.R.V.15 Reference to Source License
> 
>     victor_: There are terms such as Dublin Core source
>     ... Could be used here
> 
>     renato: Many means of implementation not specified. Could be
>     included.
>     ... ...as examples.
> 
>     RESOLUTION: inlcude Dublin Core Source as example
> 
>     <simonstey> +q
> 
>     simonstey: Is this an annotation or something else?
> 
>     benws: An annotation
> 
> POE.R.E.01 Referring to external resources for defining payment fees
> 
>     <simonstey> [33]http://w3c.github.io/poe/vocab/#term-status ?
> 
>       [33] http://w3c.github.io/poe/vocab/#term-status
> 
>     victor_: Include not the fee but a reference to a fee
>     ... as a URI for example
> 
>     benws: Is this core standard or an implementation issue?
> 
>     <simonstey> -q
> 
>     victor_: Semantics differ slightly
> 
>     renato: party has attribute "scope"
>     ... can we can specify that something needs to be dereferenced
>     before use
>     ... so datatype isnt the amount but a reference to something
>     external
> 
>     benws: Risk of creating two ways of doing the same thing
> 
>     victor_: can just change text to admit references as well
>     ... MPEG-21 REL has this capability
> 
>     <simonstey> +q
> 
>     simonstey: should avoid having multiple ways of expressing the
>     same thing
> 
>     <victor_> +q
> 
>     ben: accept scope and new operator to indicate reference
> 
>     victor_: Idea: as we now have template we could include there
>     whether things are resources of references?
> 
>     renato: Not needed
> 
>     RESOLUTION: accept that scope should have a new operator to
>     indicate reference
> 
> POE.R.E.02 Prove that a list of existing licenses can be
> expressed/encoded
> 
>     RESOLUTION: To be included as part of a Note
> 
> Define rules for matching permissions/prohibitions against specific
> use cases
> 
>     benws: Including minimum viable policy and ensure consistency
> 
>     sabrina: To be discussed as part of semantic checking
> 
>     <simonstey> which is usually the empty policy?
> 
>     <victor_> :)
> 
>     sabrina: Project forthcoming to crawl over multiple licences
>     and return the least compatible constraint meeting all
> 
>     RESOLUTION: discuss later
> 
> Define a language for controlling processing policies
> 
>     benws: Out of scope?
> 
> Define processing rules for versioned policies
> 
>     benws: there are means of dealign with versioning
> 
>     sabrina: for interop, partners will need to agree version to be
>     used
> 
>     <victor_> paulj: if things are different they cannot share the
>     same identifier
> 
>     ivan: there are good techniques to handle this and it doesnt
>     need to be normative in this dpcument
> 
>     benws: Useful to have a URI pointing to a reference to a policy
>     which is the latest version
> 
>     RESOLUTION: included best practice in a non nomative note
> 
>     inlcude
> 
>     <victor_> +1
> 
>     <victor_> -q
> 
>     <victor_> q
> 
> Support to auto-generate a policy from a template plus provided
> parameter values
> 
>     RESOLUTION: not needed now
> 
> Guidance on Rights Assignments through Aggregation and Derivation
> 
>     ???
> 
>     RESOLUTION: satisfied
> 
> Guidance on Specifying Subsets of Assets
> 
>     RESOLUTION: satisfied
> 
> Guidance on Conflicting Permissions
> 
>     benws: Does this actually make sense?
> 
>     sabrina: exceptions and overrides subject to rules of
>     expression precedence
> 
>     ivan: Can become very complicated...
> 
>     benws: This is a request for guidance not normative treatment
>     of conflict
> 
>     renato: There is already guidance on conflict
> 
>     RESOLUTION: No action
> 
> Make policies accessible by URL
> 
>     RESOLUTION: include best practice in a non nomative note
> 
>     <renato>
>     [34]https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Requirements#POE.R.DM.06_S
>     upport_relative_time_constraints
> 
>       [34]
> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Requirements#POE.R.DM.06_Support_relative_time_constraints
> 
>     <simonstey> [35]https://www.w3.org/TR/owl-time/
> 
>       [35] https://www.w3.org/TR/owl-time/
> 
>     <simonstey> +q
> 
> POE.R.DM.06 Support Relative Time Constraint
> 
>     si
> 
>     simonstey: Can restrict timing by using time ontology
> 
>     benws: Need both event and time offset.OWL time will not
>     suffice here.
>     ... time itself isnt the problem
> 
>     ivan: Can we place a constraint on the whole ODRL graph?
> 
>     <simonstey> [36]https://www.w3.org/TR/owl-time/#scheduling
> 
>       [36] https://www.w3.org/TR/owl-time/#scheduling
> 
>     renato: need to be able to make constraints dependent on each
>     other
> 
>     <simonstey> :meeting a :Interval ; :hasBeginning :meetingStart
>     ; :hasDurationDescription :meetingDuration .
> 
>     <simonstey> :meetingStart a :Instant ; :inXSDDateTime
>     "2006-11-05T14:00:00-8:00"^^xsd:dateTime .
> 
>     <simonstey> :meetingDuration a :DurationDescription ; :minutes
>     45 .
> 
>     ren
> 
>     renato: can make scope of a constraint refer to an other
>     constraint
> 
>     ivan: that is reification and something we are seeking to avoid
>     ... this is a known recurring RDF problem
> 
>     <simonstey>
>     [37]https://www.w3.org/TR/owl-time/#time:TimePosition
> 
>       [37] https://www.w3.org/TR/owl-time/#time:TimePosition
> 
>     simonstey: Note complexity that will result from addressing
>     this
> 
>     ivan: Note that Provenance WG hit same problem.
>     ... uses relationship including qualified version
> 
>     <renato>
>     [38]https://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-prov-o-20130430/#qualifiedAt
>     tribution
> 
>       [38]
> https://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-prov-o-20130430/#qualifiedAttribution
> 
>     ivan: Note complexity and that this issue isnt in the primer!
> 
>     <renato> 3 options -
> 
>     <renato> 1 - prov option
> 
>     <renato> 2 - constraint on constrain
> 
>     <renato> 3 - extend model (eg "embargo")
> 
>     BACK IN 30 MINS!!
> 
> Digital Publishing IG
> 
>     <renato> Guests: Tzviya Siegman ,Wiley
> 
>     <renato> Guests: Bill Kasdorf
> 
>     <simonstey> could you share the link also on irc?
> 
>     <Sabrina> Renato: Digital Publishing IG - Use Cases (Tzviya
>     Siegman)
> 
>     <renato> link coming...
> 
>     <simonstey> thx
> 
>     <Sabrina> Bill: Book publishing industry worked on rights vocab
>     and payments scheme however it never went anywhere
> 
>     <Sabrina> what they were trying to express was complex and the
>     big trade partners kept adding complexity
> 
>     <tzviya> GoogleDoc with use cases
>     [39]https://docs.google.com/a/bisg.org/document/d/15nbqGY20IIGb
>     TQOzKxzw59TLzwfPpRZu-1KKA97phKg/edit?usp=sharing
> 
>       [39]
> https://docs.google.com/a/bisg.org/document/d/15nbqGY20IIGbTQOzKxzw59TLzwfPpRZu-1KKA97phKg/edit?usp=sharing
> 
>     <renato> Simon - does that link work?
> 
>     <Sabrina> ...They are interested in the rights associated with
>     granular items (e.g. image in an article, postcast, excerpt
>     from a book all in the one book)
> 
>     <simonstey> You need permission -> I requested access
> 
>     <tzviya> editable link
>     [40]https://docs.google.com/a/bisg.org/document/d/15nbqGY20IIGb
>     TQOzKxzw59TLzwfPpRZu-1KKA97phKg/edit?usp=sharing
> 
>       [40]
> https://docs.google.com/a/bisg.org/document/d/15nbqGY20IIGbTQOzKxzw59TLzwfPpRZu-1KKA97phKg/edit?usp=sharing
> 
>     <Sabrina> ... all coming from different sectors that all
>     express their metadata differently
> 
>     <renato> Simon - I just emailed you the document as well
> 
>     <Sabrina> textbook publisher understands all of the metadata
>     and all of the vocabs
> 
>     <simonstey> got it, thx
> 
>     <Sabrina> ...ODRL could be the common denominator
> 
>     <Sabrina> ..AP create a 1/4 of a million assets a day therefore
>     you need machine readabiility
> 
>     <victor> (can anybody type the standards he just mentioned?)
> 
>     <renato> ideaAlliance PRISM
> 
>     <tzviya> JATS Journal Article Tag Suite
> 
>     <tzviya> JATS has a metadata header
> 
>     <tzviya> XMP metadata with images
> 
>     [41]https://jats.nlm.nih.gov/
> 
>       [41] https://jats.nlm.nih.gov/
> 
>     <Sabrina> ... plus image data, XMP also used
> 
>     <Sabrina> ... the need for the rights expression to travel with
>     the asset
> 
>     <Sabrina> ... these various sectors need to understand that
>     they need a standard model and vocab for specifying obligations
>     and permissions
> 
>     <Sabrina> benws2: they can develop a profile
> 
>     <Sabrina> BISG are not usually technical they are contracts and
>     rights people
> 
>     <Sabrina> tzviya: we should look at these use cases
> 
>     <Sabrina> benws2: author royalties are very important to TR
> 
>     <Sabrina> bill: who owns the rights are relevant and does
>     result in the determination of who gets payment
> 
>     <Sabrina> tzviya: We should take a look at the use cases
> 
> POE.UC.22: Enhance discovery of library collection materials
> 
>     <renato> note: UC numbers will be updated ;-)
> 
>     <Sabrina> an important community that are often ignored are the
>     library community
> 
>     <Sabrina> They live and die by semantics
> 
>     <Sabrina> Bill: This use case is about consistent metadata
>     describing copyright
> 
>     <Sabrina> ... Rights data associated with a digital resource
>     work should be able to convey the whether or notthat is
>     included in a library collection should always include
>     permissions and obligations for library-to-library sublicensing
>     inter-library loan are granted.
> 
>     <Sabrina> ... interlibrary loan which relates to the digital
>     resource as opposed to the physical book (where they own the
>     book)
> 
>     <Sabrina> ... in the case of digital assets they license the
>     book
> 
>     <Sabrina> benws2: Very similar to TR lots of assets and no idea
>     how to license them
> 
>     <Sabrina> ... ODRL has a very limited way to express copyright
>     it would be good to go through the resquirements to see how
>     well copyright is adressed in ODRL
> 
>     <Sabrina> ... the idea to be able to reference items within
>     items. As a standard we will not tell you how to identify your
>     assets
> 
>     <Sabrina> bill: the publishing industry would really like
>     inheritance
> 
>     <Sabrina> ... if you pull out an asset you need to pull out all
>     the rights and sent them with the asset
> 
>     <Sabrina> benws2: are you talking about aggregation?
> 
>     <Sabrina> tzviya: Lets look at the later requirements e.g. who
>     owns the copyright for chapter 2 along with all its subitems
> 
>     <Sabrina> Bill: another example is embargo - an image has no
>     idea of time however it cannot be displayed until a particular
>     date
> 
>     <Sabrina> ... another example is to create a video that they
>     want to license a year later someone else wants to reuse that
>     video but there is no way to know that they can't use it
> 
>     <Sabrina> tzviya: POE.UC.24: Rights licensing data for e-book
>     subscription services
> 
> POE.UC.24: Rights licensing data for e-book subscription services
> 
>     <Sabrina> A number of opportunities exist for book publishers
>     to sell works through subscription services, such as Scribd,
>     Amazon Kindle Unlimited, and Playster, but they are unable to
>     take advantage of these services because a consistent method
>     for collecting and communicating subscription rights data has
>     not been adopted within the industry
> 
> POE.UC.25: Improve internal rights management systems (large book
> publishers)
> 
>     <Sabrina> Same use case just a different application
> 
>     <Sabrina> Bill: I don't need to use ODRL internally but I will
>     use it for exchange
> 
>     <Sabrina> benws2: TR use it for text editing fields... It is a
>     pull down of vocab.
> 
> POE.UC.26: Improve efficiency of foreign rights transactions
> (University Press)
> 
>     <Sabrina> China wants to do Spanish for Dummies (language
>     restrictions, internationalisation) same use case again just a
>     different application
> 
>     <Sabrina> ... the expressions need to be language agnostic
> 
>     <Sabrina> tzviya: for publishing licensing in multiple areas is
>     a very big area
> 
>     <Sabrina> Bill: model and vocab needs to be language agnostic
> 
>     <Sabrina> benws2: We will provide an extension model
> 
>     <Sabrina> Bill: It would be good to have language codes such as
>     THEMA or ONIX
> 
>     <Sabrina> ... ONIX have a code, english word and a description
> 
>     <Sabrina> benws2: Wiley in New York have a UI in english, send
>     the policy to China and they should be able to see it in
>     Chinese
> 
>     <Sabrina> Bill: Books are priced differently depending on the
>     country
> 
>     <Sabrina> ... its not just the rights to license it could also
>     be is the purchaser allowed to by it in a particular country
> 
> POE.UC.27: Disambiguate access permission from copyright permission
> (University Press)
> 
>     <Sabrina> tzviya: Difference between license and copyright
> 
>     <Sabrina> benws2: We need much more detail on this...
> 
>     <Sabrina> paulj: Rights expression languages are not really
>     suitable for rights
> 
>     <Sabrina> tzviya: Can you provide more details on what you
>     require?
> 
>     <Sabrina> renato: fair use is not something that we are going
>     to express
> 
>     <Sabrina> Bill: Looking for the ability to specify rights but
>     they could be superseded by copyright
> 
> POE.UC.28: Library collection management and access
> 
>     <Sabrina> Bill: Looking for a translation into ODRL
> 
>     <Sabrina> renato: We support this by promoting ODRL and
>     marketing it so that there is an awareness of the outcomes of
>     our work among these communities
> 
> POE.UC.29: Rights licensing for custom textbook publishing (higher
> education publishers)
> 
>     <Sabrina> tzviya: Ability to build their own book from chapters
>     from existing books and possible add their own content or
>     something from the web
> 
>     <Sabrina> renato: can you give some more information on the
>     subscription model?
> 
>     <Sabrina> tzviya: similar to the textbook use case... I
>     subscribe to the service, they have books on HTML and I am only
>     interested in 1 chapter...
> 
>     <Sabrina> At the moment this is not automated
> 
>     <Sabrina> Bill: You need a profile of the person, they are a
>     student of a university and the university has a subscription
> 
>     <Sabrina> ivan: I try to look way ahead ... candidate
>     recommendation . way the technology is proberly tested
>     consistency and usability... you can not start thinking about
>     it early enough. We have use cases, and a real community, in
>     the future it would be good to ask that community to verify
>     what we have done
> 
>     <Sabrina> ... The question is would BISG be willing to play
>     that role when the time comes
> 
>     <Sabrina> Bill: In general yes, however it's hard to know if we
>     will be able to get people to do all that you require
> 
>     <Sabrina> ... We should be able to get OCLC involved
> 
>     <Sabrina> renato: Do they have to show implementations or just
>     confirmation that the model and vocab are ok
> 
>     <simonstey>
>     [42]https://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-prov-implementations-201304
>     30/
> 
>       [42] https://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-prov-implementations-20130430/
> 
>     <Sabrina> ivan: each working group defines their own criteria
>     and asks the director if they are happy with our proposal
> 
>     <simonstey> prov-o exit criteria ->
>     [43]https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvCRExitCriteria
> 
>       [43] https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvCRExitCriteria
> 
>     <Sabrina> Bill: It would be useful to know what the gaps are
> 
>     <Sabrina> tzviya: Journal articles are the most important to us
> 
>     <renato> POE thanks Tzviya and Bill
> 
>     <simonstey> break? or do we continue?
> 
>     <renato> 5 mins
> 
>     <simonstey> kk
> 
>     <victor> scribe: victor
> 
> Formal Semantics Note
> 
>     <simonstey> [44]https://www.w3.org/TR/prov-sem/
> 
>       [44] https://www.w3.org/TR/prov-sem/
> 
>     simon: We can take this specification as a reference for our
>     spec
>     ... second paragraph in section 1.1 is very clarifying
>     ... formal semantics in ODRL can be stated as a set of
>     description logic axioms, as well.
>     ... this would naturally solve policy aggregation, conflict
>     detection, etc. Enforcing is explicitly excluded.
> 
>     <simonstey>
>     [45]https://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-prov-sem-20130430/#addition
>     al-axioms
> 
>       [45]
> https://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-prov-sem-20130430/#additional-axioms
> 
>     simonstey: some conflicts can be avoided by declaring
>     appropriate axioms.
>     ... there are, for example, conflicts related to the duties or
>     the constrains
> 
>     benws2: the work is around the question of validity.
> 
>     Sabrina: validity and conflicts.
> 
>     <renato> new member: Konstantopoulos, Stasinos
> 
>     Sabrina: a new ODRL member has much experience in formalizing.
>     (who?)
> 
>     <renato> who is also interested
> 
>     ivan: how is the current charter?
> 
>     renato: only two documents to be Recommendation
> 
>     ivan: but you have also in mind about 4 notes. There may not be
>     enough resources to actually edit the six documents.
>     ... it is not tenable that one person can edit the documents in
>     their own. also, renato, as chair, may not be that much
>     involved.
> 
>     Sabrina: a newly funded project will provide working force
> 
>     ivan: only members of the WG can vote on the publication of the
>     note
> 
>     renato: changes needed to write the two recommendations are
>     limited, as we don't start from the scratch.
> 
>     victor: doing the formalization effort will improve the
>     recommendations anyway
> 
>     ivan: i see other more urgent tasks, like moving from JSON to
>     JSON-LD
>     ... this group has a strong bias towards RDF, and we do not
>     want to disband the web developers (JSON lovers)
> 
>     benws2: the value of ODRL for Thomson-Reuters is easing the
>     task of validating compliance. For this regard, having a formal
>     semantics would be a great value.
> 
>     ivan: no doubt about it. but can everything be accomplished?
> 
>     simonstey: (on additional logical implications, and how
>     profiles can be improved if the note is made among other
>     benefits)
> 
>     renato: in the whiteboard, lists the 6 documents
> 
>     (actually seven)
> 
>     ivan: there is much to be improved in the two recommendations
>     as they are. for newcomers, it may not be so immediatly
>     understandable
>     ... they need a lot of editorial work to make them sellable
> 
>     benws2: when I first approached, it took me much time
>     understanding ODRL.
> 
>     ivan: they had the same problem in the Web Annotations group,
>     and they had to illustrate it with plentiful of examples
> 
>     benws2: the best practices may help at making things
>     understandable
> 
>     renato: we are moving in this direction, moving examples up
> 
>     benws2: Renato, you should leave aside your years-experience
>     and describe everything with new eyes
>     ... 24 years of experience in this business are a heavy bag
> 
>     ivan: the annotations document is now an example of good
>     quality
> 
>     <simonstey> lost you
> 
>     <simonstey> no one on webex
> 
>     <simonstey> back
> 
>     ivan: owl and xml is less important
> 
>     Serena: Renato should leave the lead on the model document
>     re-engineering to me, as I have a fresher view than Renato.
> 
>     ivan: which are the other notes?
> 
>     renato: best practices would be examples
> 
>     ivan: why not in the github as naked examples?
> 
>     benws2: there are patterns in the practical expressions. The
>     document would give context to the problem: "if this is your
>     business model, this is the pattern"
> 
>     <renato> ACTION: serena review info model to support
>     "annotation model" style examples [recorded in
>     [46]http://www.w3.org/2016/09/23-poe-minutes.html#action01]
> 
>       [46] http://www.w3.org/2016/09/23-poe-minutes.html#action01]
> 
>     <trackbot> Created ACTION-27 - Review info model to support
>     "annotation model" style examples [on Serena Villata - due
>     2016-09-30].
> 
>     benws2: there are many types of ODRL users. Some are 24 year
>     old techies, some are oldies who should understand.
> 
>     victor: github repo may be useful for the ODRL mapping licenses
> 
>     ivan: what is linked data profile?
> 
>     victor: profile FOR linked data
> 
>     ivan: i personally find it very nice, but indeed of least
>     priority
> 
>     benws2: I voluneer to edit the "Best practices".
> 
>     paulj: I volunteer to edit "Best practices" as well
> 
>     <simonstey> if we provide them, wouldn't they need to be
>     audited/checked by a legal expert?
> 
>     victor: legal experts may differ, also. it is a matter of
>     interpretatoin
> 
>     renato: we need a github repo of licenses
> 
>     Sabrina: we will contribute along our project
> 
>     RESOLUTION: We remove the ODRL Mapping Licences to a github
>     repo referenced from the "Best Practices".
> 
>     Sabrina: (and victor and serena) We cannot work on everything
>     at the same time, so we can postpone this activity
> 
>     <simonstey> break?
> 
>     <renato> yes
> 
>     <renato> 1 hr
> 
>     <renato> We are back
> 
>     <Serena> scribe: Serena
> 
> general data protection regulation - Sabrina
> 
>     Sabrina: I recently launched a new lab in Vienna
>     ... general data protection regulation
> 
>     H2020 project accepted together with Ben
> 
>     <scribe> … new general data protection regulations to be
>     represented and model them ODRL to built on top of them
> 
>     UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: two scenarios: (1) policies and transparency:
>     who does what with my data
>     ... (2) risk assessment for companies to address compliance
>     checkinh
>     ... examples of rules to have e.g., explicit consent
>     ... who is doing what with the data
>     ... model quite close to ODRL: constraints, actions, etc are
>     the same
>     ... you have obligations, and if you satisfy them then you're
>     compliant
>     ... parties: data subject -> party, other people like data
>     protection officers, etc
>     ... asset is personal data
>     ... action is all regarding processing in the EU and outside
>     the EU
>     ... sometimes you have dispensation e.g., unless it is in the
>     child interest etc
>     ... the policy is the general data protection regulation, but
>     we want the link to the articles, in each article there are
>     many rules
>     ... we will provide examples in n-triples
> 
>     <simonstey> +q
> 
>     UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: if you hava a duty, and you fulfill the duty
>     then you have the permission to process the data
> 
>     Sabrina: asset is personal data
> 
>     <simonstey> there is a privacy type
> 
>     renato: is this another kind of policy type?
> 
>     Sabrina: this could be seen as a new policy type
>     ... the H2020 project aims at designing a system to check
>     compliance
>     ... we will have legal guidance
> 
>     renato: do you have inheritance among policies?
> 
>     <simonstey> odrl doesn't allow for multi-inheritance
> 
>     Sabrina: regulations contains articles, paragraphs and then
>     duties
> 
>     <renato> odrl can do "One Parent Policy to one or more Child
>     Policy entities"
> 
>     renato: are there actions from this project?
> 
>     <victor> ...
> 
>     <simonstey> which doesn't mean that all of those subpolicies
>     belong together
> 
>     benws2: every information with personal information can be the
>     "input" for this project
> 
>     renato: new policy type -> regulation
> 
>     <simonstey> how does the privacy type relate to all of that?
> 
>     <simonstey> [47]http://w3c.github.io/poe/vocab/#term-Privacy
> 
>       [47] http://w3c.github.io/poe/vocab/#term-Privacy
> 
>     victor: for these policies it is important to keep provenance
> 
>     <simonstey>
>     [48]https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/vocab/2.1/#section-21
> 
>       [48] https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/vocab/2.1/#section-21
> 
>     [49]https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/vocab/2.1/#section-21
> 
>       [49] https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/vocab/2.1/#section-21
> 
>     <renato> action sabrina define a new Regulation Policy Type
> 
>     <trackbot> Created ACTION-28 - Define a new regulation policy
>     type [on Sabrina Kirrane - due 2016-09-30].
> 
>     <simonstey> do we need the privacy type then actually?
> 
>     <renato> yes, perhaps for more personal privacy polices
> 
>     <simonstey> you dropped from webex
> 
>     renato: use cases and requirements
>     ... R.DM 04
> 
>     [50]https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Requirements#POE.R.DM.04_S
>     upport_versioning_policies
> 
>       [50]
> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Requirements#POE.R.DM.04_Support_versioning_policies
> 
>     scribe: what is the action here?
>     ... do we want to be back to the group?
>     ... any other comment or question about UCR?
>     ... jason-LD as undelines by Ivan has to be considered
> 
>     ivan: having both jason and jason-ld encodings is superflous
>     ... json-ld should be enough
>     ... we should forget xml/html
>     ... is there a fresh market for pure xml?
> 
>     * thanks simonstey *
> 
>     ivan: what we do now for the annotation, we actually have a
>     test suite with all examples converted from json-ld into turtle
> 
>     benws2: do we have to show that there are implementations using
>     xml?
>     ... we can ask in the community group
> 
>     <renato> ACTION: renato ask WG/CG - who is using plain XML?
>     [recorded in
>     [51]http://www.w3.org/2016/09/23-poe-minutes.html#action02]
> 
>       [51] http://www.w3.org/2016/09/23-poe-minutes.html#action02]
> 
>     <trackbot> Created ACTION-29 - Ask wg/cg - who is using plain
>     xml? [on Renato Iannella - due 2016-09-30].
> 
>     ivan: I think that json and json-ld are the same
>     ... and we all have to be careful to the discussion about using
>     the @id or not, etc
> 
>     <renato> action stuart Can we only have a JSON-LD
>     serialisation? Will it impact RighstML?
> 
>     <trackbot> Created ACTION-30 - Can we only have a json-ld
>     serialisation? will it impact righstml? [on Stuart Myles - due
>     2016-09-30].
> 
>     ivan: each example needs to be encoded in json-ld in the
>     information model
>     ... is there a plain to have the vocabulary defined in owl?
>     ... what's in the current model?
>     ... it says RDF/OWL encoding
>     ... somebody did make the RDF/OWL triple ontology
>     ... don't show examples with rdf/xml
> 
>     <simonstey> +1 to ivan's point of view
> 
>     ivan: we should not include rdf/xml in w3c recommendations
> 
>     benws2: digital publishing people are claiming about the
>     translation (e.g. in japanese), then this should be in the owl
>     ontology
> 
>     victor: who is going to do the translations?
> 
>     ivan: we should not spend time on that
> 
>     victor: question about the ontology connected to the formal
>     semantics, will it have the same set of axioms or a superset?
> 
>     <simonstey> agreed
> 
>     ivan: owl ontology normative or informative?
> 
>     Sabrina: Phil suggested to have two recommendations, with many
>     of the items are not normative and other are
> 
>     ivan: if we say "yes" we need to have consistency proved by at
>     least two tools
>     ... which means that all the statements in all the examples
>     would be consistent with the ontology etc
> 
>     victor: in favor of making it normaive
> 
>     ivan: we have to keep in mind that if we decide to go for a
>     normative owl ontology than we will have to follow a certain
>     process to prove its consistency
> 
>     Sabrina: then we will keep the non normative items right?
> 
>     ivan: on the one hand, for end users it seems strange not to
>     have an owl ontology, on the other side having a normative
>     ontology with non normative items…
>     ... let's go for the normative but complete
> 
>     <renato> 15 min break
> 
>     <renato> we've back
> 
>     <benws2> We're about to restart.
> 
>     <benws2> nick/benws
> 
>     * :) *
> 
>     renato: dates for the next working draft?
>     ... any other issue to be discussed in the last hour?
>     ... profile seems a good way to show odrl is used
>     ... there is a whole section about the profile
> 
>     <simonstey> +q
> 
>     benws2: there are different levels of profiles
>     ... we can automate the validation of licenses, for that we
>     need a formal semantics, these are different levels of profile
>     (profile in a profike)
> 
>     simonstey: we have to be careful about the way profile works
> 
>     ivan: we have to define what this MUST means?
>     ... in normative terms
> 
>     renato: there is no machine readable representation
> 
>     ivan: I should have the right to ignore it
>     ... I would put all the statements in stronger terms, e.g.,
>     "some requirements…" -> "we must document…" otherwise it is not
>     normative
> 
>     <simonstey> a core set of concepts that MUST be provided/used
>     by all profiles?
> 
>     ivan: why having two URIs?
>     ... we're talking about an rdf model
>     ... xml is a possible serialization, but the model itself is in
>     rdf
> 
>     victor: the ontology plus the text is the proposal
> 
>     ivan: but the heart of it is just rdf
>     ... don't use "deprecated" in the profile text
> 
>     renato: what about a profile being machine readable?
> 
>     benws2: it is optional, some profiles are incredible
>     lightweight
>     ... we should allow people to come to the level they prefer
>     ... the best would be to point to some examples of profiles
> 
>     <simonstey> I dont think you should
> 
>     ivan: will SHACL become a rec?
> 
>     simonstey: next year probably
> 
>     renato: can I use it for reasoning?
> 
>     simonstey: non actually for reasoning
>     ... you can use it to check the profiles
> 
> Horizontal Reviews
> 
>     ivan: horizontal review
>     ... we have to ask the experts to review the document
>     ... I'm not sure about security, but being a vocabulary I don't
>     think it's an issue
>     ... privacy issues
>     ... internationalization
>     ... in the annotation group, we made a mistake and we contacted
>     them too late
>     ... ideally we should have a model document by January to have
>     a review in January
>     ... not a final version but a reviewable one
>     ... what we can do now is to look at the new version of the
>     information model to avoid internationalization issues
> 
>     <renato> action phila propose date/time for the virtual meeting
>     in Nov/Dec
> 
>     <trackbot> Created ACTION-31 - Propose date/time for the
>     virtual meeting in nov/dec [on Phil Archer - due 2016-09-30].
> 
>     <renato> Proposed next F2F in March 2017
> 
>     <simonstey> lost you
> 
>     <renato> yes
> 
>     <simonstey> see you guys!
> 
>     <simonstey> bye bye
> 
>     <renato> thanks Simon!
> 
> Summary of Action Items
> 
>     [NEW] ACTION: renato ask WG/CG - who is using plain XML?
>     [recorded in
>     [52]http://www.w3.org/2016/09/23-poe-minutes.html#action02]
>     [NEW] ACTION: serena review info model to support "annotation
>     model" style examples [recorded in
>     [53]http://www.w3.org/2016/09/23-poe-minutes.html#action01]
> 
>       [52] http://www.w3.org/2016/09/23-poe-minutes.html#action02
>       [53] http://www.w3.org/2016/09/23-poe-minutes.html#action01
> 
> Summary of Resolutions
> 
>      1. [54]POE.R.V.10 accepted
>      2. [55]POE.R.V.11 satisfied
>      3. [56]POE.R.V.12 Satisfied
>      4. [57]inlcude Dublin Core Source as example
>      5. [58]accept that scope should have a new operator to
>         indicate reference
>      6. [59]To be included as part of a Note
>      7. [60]discuss later
>      8. [61]included best practice in a non nomative note
>      9. [62]not needed now
>     10. [63]satisfied
>     11. [64]satisfied
>     12. [65]No action
>     13. [66]include best practice in a non nomative note
>     14. [67]We remove the ODRL Mapping Licences to a github repo
>         referenced from the "Best Practices".
> 
>     [End of minutes]
>       __________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> 

Received on Sunday, 25 September 2016 20:23:57 UTC