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WAI UA Telecon for October 20th, 1999

Chair: Jon Gunderson
Date: Wednesday, October 20th
Time: 12:00 noon to 1:30 pm Eastern Standard Time
Call-in: W3C Tobin Bridge (+1) 617-252-7000

Agenda

Review Open Action Items

  1. IJ: Follow up with Lake on usability questions related to her posting to IG.
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/1999OctDec/0023.html
  2. IJ: Repropose Guideline 7 descriptive text to include more than just W3C technologies.
  3. IJ: Update document based on resolutions at F2F meeting
  4. IJ: Redesign techniques document based on discussions at F2F meeting
  5. IJ: Propose on the list: Generalize 3.8 to apply to more than just continuous tracks : all sources of alt content.
  6. IJ: Add a checkpoint to turn on/off background sounds.
  7. IJ: Propose how the conformance checklist will be delivered
  8. JG: Announce F2F meeting being organized for December on the UA page and list.
  9. JG: Contact MR about SMIL techniques
  10. JG: Talk to Wilson Craig offline about contacts for assistive technology developers who may be interested in reviewing the document during last call
  11. JG: Ensure that December F2F meeting is discussed at next telecon.
  12. JB: Follow up on hosting possibilities for December F2F meeting.
  13. HR: Find information about European contacts who may be interested in reviewing the document during last call
  14. TL: Get feedback from MS IE Team on usability of 5 October Techniques structure.
  15. GR: Write a proposal to address issues about spawned windows.
  16. GR: Repropose Checkpoiont 2.5 on user defined keyboard bindings so that it's clear that there should be a cascade order whereby the user has ultimate control or can concede control to the tool.
  17. MN: Propose a new definition of active element, based on keyboard navigation discussion at F2F meeting
  18. MR: Working on SMIL techniques in addition to SMIL access note.
  19. CMN: Write a proposal to address this checkpoint 2.3 Provide information to the user about author-specified keyboard configurations. P3
  20. RS: Propose rewording of Checkpoint 1.1

Announcements

Discussion

  1. Technique document reorganization
  2. Issue #105: ACCESSKEY implementation issues
    http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#105
  3. Issue #106: Proposed Abstract revision
    http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#106
  4. Issue #107: Proposed new checkpoint: 6.7 Support assistive technology accessibility standards defined for plug-in and virtual machine systems used by your browser
    http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#107
  5. Issue #108: Proposed checkpoint for table summary information
    http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#108
  6. Issue #109: Proposed rewording of Checkpoints 1.1 and 1.6
    http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#109

Attendance

Chair: Jon Gunderson

Scribe: Ian Jacobs

RSVP Present:
Gregory Rosmaita
Harvey Bingham
Kitch Barnicle
Charles McCathieNevile
Marja Koivunen
Rich Schwerdtfeger

RSVP Regrets:
Mark Novak
Dick Brown
Wilson Craig
Denis Anson
David Poehlman

Action Items

Completed Action Items

  1. IJ: Follow up with Lake on usability questions related to her posting to IG.
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/1999OctDec/0023.html
    Status: done
  2. JG: Announce F2F meeting being organized for December on the UA page and list.
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0125.html
  3. JG: Contact MR about SMIL techniques
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0123.html
  4. JG: Ensure that December F2F meeting is discussed at next telecon.
    http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/1999/10/wai-ua-telecon-19991020.html
  5. RS: Propose rewording of Checkpoint 1.1
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0098.html
  6. IJ: Contact Microsoft about participation at F2F meeting in Redmond
    Status. Done.
  7. IJ: Contact Marja about writing a proposal for what should be changed related to checkpoint 2.1 issues
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0124.html
    Status. Done.
  8. IJ: Propose a checkpoint like the ones for form about table summary information (checkpoint 9.9 and 9.10) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0092.html
    Status: Done.

Continued Action Items

  1. IJ: Repropose Guideline 7 descriptive text to include more than just W3C technologies.
  2. IJ: Update document based on resolutions at F2F meeting
  3. IJ: Redesign techniques document based on discussions at F2F meeting
  4. IJ: Propose on the list: Generalize 3.8 to apply to more than just continuous tracks : all sources of alt content.
  5. IJ: Add a checkpoint to turn on/off background sounds.
  6. IJ: Propose how the conformance checklist will be delivered
  7. JG: Talk to Wilson Craig offline about contacts for assistive technology developers who may be interested in reviewing the document during last call
  8. JB: Follow up on hosting possibilities for December F2F meeting.
  9. HR: Find information about European contacts who may be interested in reviewing the document during last call
  10. TL: Get feedback from MS IE Team on usability of 5 October Techniques structure.
  11. GR: Write a proposal to address issues about spawned windows.
  12. GR: Repropose Checkpoiont 2.5 on user defined keyboard bindings so that it's clear that there should be a cascade order whereby the user has ultimate control or can concede control to the tool.
  13. MN: Propose a new definition of active element, based on keyboard navigation discussion at F2F meeting
  14. MR: Working on SMIL techniques
  15. CMN: Write a proposal to address this checkpoint 2.3 Provide information to the user about author-specified keyboard configurations. P3

New Action Items

  1. IJ: Add RS proposal related to VM and plug-ins into to checkpoint for using accessible interfaces. For review next week
  2. IJ: Follow up with Judy on FTF coordination with IBM.
  3. JG: Decide if we're ready for last call by next Weds.
  4. JG: Before next Weds, send list of people to contact for last call.
  5. JG: Include an annotation mechanism in current issues list mechanism.
  6. RS: Look into 9/10 December for room availability for next F2F meeting.

Minutes

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0116.html

1) Review of action items:

  1. 1.IJ: Follow up with Lake on usability questions related to her posting [2] to IG.
    Status: Done. I called her and we discussed a number of features. She will send info to the WG.
    [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/1999OctDec/0023.html
  3. 2.IJ: Repropose Guideline 7 descriptive text to include more than just W3C technologies.
    Status: Not done.
  4. 3.IJ: Update document based on resolutions at F2F meeting
    Status: Pending.
  5. 4.IJ: Redesign techniques document based on discussions at F2F meeting
    Status: Not done.
  6. IJ: I haven't had time to work on this yet. It will be essentially what we discussed at the FTF.
  7. 5.IJ: Propose on the list: Generalize 3.8 to apply to more than just continuous tracks : all sources of alt content.
    Status: Not done.
  8. 6.IJ: Add a checkpoint to turn on/off background sounds.
    Status: Not done.
  9. 7.IJ: Propose how the conformance checklist will be delivered
    Status: Pending.
  10. 8.JG: Announce F2F meeting being organized for December on the UA page and list.
    Status: Done.
  11. 9.JG: Contact MR about SMIL techniques
    Status: Done. MR (Madeleine Rothberg) will send.
  12. 10.JG: Talk to Wilson Craig off-line about contacts for assistive technology developers who may be interested in reviewing the document during last call
    Status: Not done.
  13. 11.JG: Ensure that December F2F meeting is discussed at next telecon.
    Status: Done.
  14. 12.JB: Follow up on hosting possibilities for December F2F meeting.
    Status: Done.
  15. 13.HR: Find information about European contacts who may be interested in reviewing the document during last call
    Status: ?
  16. 14.TL: Get feedback from MS IE Team on usability of 5 October Techniques structure.
    Status: ?
  17. 15.GR: Write a proposal to address issues about spawned windows.
    Status: Pending.
  18. 16.GR: Repropose Checkpoint 2.5 on user defined keyboard bindings so that it's clear that there should be a cascade order whereby the user has ultimate control or can concede control to the tool.
    Status: GR did thinking out loud on PF list. Took the pulse there. Should something be fixed in UA or elsewhere?
  19. 17.MN: Propose a new definition of active element, based on keyboard navigation discussion at F2F meeting
    Status: ?
  20. 19.CMN: Write a proposal to address this checkpoint 2.3 Provide information to the user about author-specified keyboard configurations. P3
    Status: Pending.
  21. 20.RS: Propose rewording of Checkpoint 1.1
    Status: Done.
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0097.html
  22. 21.JG: Run pwWebSpeak through the guidelines
    Status: Done.
    http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/1999/10/uagl-checklist-pww-311
  23. 22.JG: Contact Lakespur Roca related to posting for review of keyboard support
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/1999OctDec/0015.html
    Status. Done.
  24. 23.JG: Review RS comments on current working draft and update the issue list
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0063.html
    Status. Done, indirectly at ftf.
  25. 24.IJ: Contact Microsoft about participation at F2F meeting in Redmond
    Status. Done.
  26. 25.IJ: Contact Marja about writing a proposal for what should be changed related to checkpoint 2.1 issues
    Status. Done.
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0124.html
  27. 26.IJ: Propose a checkpoint like the ones for form about table summary information (checkpoint 9.9 and 9.10)
    Status: Done.
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0092.html

2) FTF meeting in December

RS: 7/8 December better for IBM (Austin). Week of the 14th is very bad (conf room booked, RS in classes). Don't know about room availability for 9/10.

Who can attend: 9/10: GR, IJ, JG, RS

Unsure: CMN (depends on AU),

KB (question of permission).

HB (issue of access workshop at XML WS).

MRK (may be in Findland).

CMN: Process issues - meetings require 8 weeks from meeting notice. Exception case ok when WG has consensus about meeting.

JG: If we don't go to last call next week, we may have to delay the meeting. If we don't go to last call until after AC meeting, wouldn't meet to process last call until mid-January.

CMN: Mid-january would be good for me.

RS: I'll be at a conf first week of Nov. I need to know as soon as possible.

Action RS: Look into 9/10 December for room availability.

Action IJ: Follow up with Judy on FTF coordination with IBM.

Action JG: Decide if we're ready for last call by next Weds.

3) TODO for last call:

a) Document Chair's/WG's decision to go to last call. (Done at next week's teleconf).

b) Identify dependencies and track their responses in a specific list.

Action JG: Before next Weds, send list of people to contact for last call.

c) Identify issues and track them in the issues list (annotate the existing issues list mechanism?). Get sign-off from individuals who raised issues?

Action JG: Include an annotation mechanism in current issues list mechanism.

d) Charter up to date. Ok.

4) Issue #105: ACCESSKEY implementation issues

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#105

GR: IE implements accesskey somewhat.

JG: Does Opera implement accesskey?

GR: Not in v. 3.6. PWWebspeak latest version may.

CMN: Amaya does not.

GR: One reason I haven't proposed yet to UA is that I'm deciding whether this is part of G2 (keyboard) or G6 (UI) or G8 (Navigation). Also, I don't want to lose Tim Lacy's point from face-to-face: user doesn't care where bindings come from (author or UA). Only wants to know:
a) What's available
b) How to invoke them
c) What to expect from them.

GR: Discussion in PFWG about handling accesskey. Should PF look into CSS3 user interface? I don't have much faith in implementation as defined in CSS3. The onus is on the author to write platform-specific bindings. It's not the role of the UAGL to fix broken things.

JG: Author, through accesskey, is adding user interface. Concerned about author's intent. Also, with current accesskey specification, no way to notify author of intent.

CMN: I don't agree. You can look at markup and say "This key provides access to this object."

IJ: You could ask users to provide "title" descriptions.

GR: What is needed (in terms of checkpoints):

1) List of key bindings (default [P1] + current [P1])

2) List changes from default.

3) Cascade order from bindings

a) don't override or allow override of defaults

b) alert user to author-supplied bindings

c) remap conflicting mappings to unused bindings.

4) Consistent behavior on activation. Does accesskey switch focus alone or do focus + activate? For screen reader users, I prefer focus alone; decide based on context. May want a cascade here: focus, focus + activate (with prompt for configuration).

RS: I'm for cascading of bindings.

KB: About remapping: what's involved in that from a developer's perspective?

CMN: The user doesn't care where controls are designed. Only cares about how to operate the UA.
You can use CSS to document what's got an access key.

IJ: How will GR's proposal differ from what's in current G2? From what I've heard it sounds like there aren't big issues.

KB: Recall that priority was an issue (due to WCAG).

GR: What's different: Everyone agreed that 2.5 was insufficient: on/off insufficient since a cascade is required. May need several checkpoints, may need to put elsewhere.

MK: Turn on/off is like a different mode. When you cascade, you may lose consistency of mapping.

/* Digression into Guideline 2: whether or not to abstract to other devices than the keyboard */

CMN: Separating author-supplied bindings is a mistake.

IJ: I agree: 2.5 should be about user final control of configuration.

HB: When an author changes a binding that the user wants, this flies in the face of UA design.

CMN: I think the priority of accesskeys in WCAG is orthogonal to letting the user know how the UA works.

IJ: I think that most of GL2 is not about the keyboard (as MRK has suggested).

CMN: I agree.

RS: Consensus at ftf was to keep keyboard separate.

IJ: I think it's an editorial issue to ensure that the emphasis on keyboard access is not lost. I guarantee that the keyboard emphasis will not be lost.

MK: I think it's important to have "keyboard" in the checkpoints. It's not clear to me what it means in 2.1 that if you support the keyboard API, support the keyboard.

IJ: The key word is "all".

JG: I think we need to move this document forward and we may need to restrict ourselves to keyboard here to finish.

IJ: I think there's little effort to abstract slightly and it would be worth it.

5) Issue #106: Proposed Abstract revision

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#106 No objections. Editorial.

6) Issue #107: Proposed new checkpoint: 6.7 Support assistive technology accessibility standards defined for plug-in and virtual machine systems used by your browser

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#107

RS: Effort has been made to create accessibility environments (e.g., Java). We need to ensure that standard system functions are implemented by browsers in this environment.

JG: Is this a technique?

RS: For Java in particular, this is a technique (Java Accessibility API). Today, browsers aren't implementing the accessibility features of environments. Like writing a windows browser without supporting MSAA. Do we extend existing system conventions Checkpoint?

GR: I support separate checkpoint?

CMN: I'd like to reuse existing one.

IJ: I would say priority 2.

CMN: I say priority 1. The requirement is implicit in other checkpoints on APIs and conventions. I don't think that we should higlight the specific case of, say Java Accessibility API. But recently, this was missed by a major browser.

GR: Need to ensure that developers are aware of virtual machines in addition to their own software.

RS: I think strongly that this is Priority 1.

JG: Are these standards specific or general?

RS: FCK is a general purpose "screen reader" that talks to java components that have implemented java access support. Or it can be components that talk by launching the AT in the virtual machine. What's missing: ability to load an AT that will run in the accessible environment. Also, IE and Netscape don't have the built-in java access API that would come with the JVM shipped with the browser. These browsers are not following industry conventions for the environment in question.

CMN: For any plug-in environment, you must support the accessibility standards.

RS: Add Java examples.

IJ: Proposed: Comply with accessibility standards for supported plug-in and virtual machine environments.

CMN: Sounds a lot like: Comply with accessibility standards. Propose adding to note that this applies to plugins, virtual machines, etc.

IJ: Propose adding to "Use operating system and programming language accessibility resources and conventions, including for plug-in and virtual machine environments."

RS: How do you handle conflicting standards: system conventions vs. open standards? Should they have to do both?

GR: We should favor interoperable.

JG: I doubt W3C should promote a particular standard that it doesn't produce.

Resolved: Add this as a Note to existing checkpoint.

Action Ian: Add this to the spec. For review next week

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