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EOWG Minutes 22 October 2004 Meeting

on this page: attendees - outreach updates - components images - site redesign - overview pages - next meeting

Meeting Summary and Action Items


agenda in e-mail list archives: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2004OctDec/0054.html



Outreach Updates

No outreach updates

Components images

Background (from agenda):

- we updated the 3 images in:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/components.html and are open to feedback on these, specifically:
- how do they work in this document?
- how do they work for presentations, a printed piece, other?

Comments in the mailing list archive from Blossom, Alan, Helle, a couple from Shawn [0061.html and 0062.html], Chuck and William.


CL: outlined his concerns (see e-mail archive) (i.e. likes art overall, and 1 and 3 in particular, but not 2)
DS: agreed with Chuck's concerns.
HBj: agreed and elaborated on her comments (see e-mail archive)
AA: agreed with Helle, and after recognizing the "people" as people the meaning of the first diagram became clear. Also feels the contrast ratio is a bit too low.
SLH: what is the feeling of more artistic image vs. a plain diagram.
DS: likes artistic better, more interest, more appealing, in spite of fact that simple diagrams can convey technical.
AA: artistic one has more feeling.
PP: images are very futuristic, probably better than before, but maybe the contrast is not readable enough.
JT: Wow! was first reaction. Artistic quality does convey meaning. Except for #2.
HB: agrees, and agrees that #2 has got to go. Really likes these better than the original rough ones.
SLH: in site design, trying to get "Wow" and having some difficulty. Was hoping that similar concept of images would enliven the WAI site and bring consistency and meaning and excitement. Note that contrast and how printing are damaged are known issues and will be dealt with in future iterations.
SLH: how to make 2 better?
AA: make zig-zag a visual "bottleneck" to show slowdown of development and user experience.
DS: line up rectangles on right side and show a bottleneck. Also the face on the left should be moved back over the body to make it look more connected.
JT: if you made the face a parallopiped (?) facing the other way would make it look frowning.
DS: in cartooning you can use an explosion to show a break
WD: if you use zig-zag it should get smaller to show narrowing of experience.
SHL: what is feeling about using long "alt" or short "alt" with longdesc?
[Consensus: use simple alt and longdesc]
CL: mentioned an extension for Mozilla Firefox browser that displays longdesc files (see e-mail in the archive about Firefox longdesc extension
DS: have you thought about breaking the picture up into an image map with different comments informing each section of the picture.
CL: would be interesting to see that.
[someone said: should be in SVG]
[General Consensus: people seem generally in favour of using the artist and the more artistic concept]

Site redesign

Background (from agenda):

- general update
- a partial prototype of the navigation design starts at:
http://www.w3.org/2004/09/wai-nav/8-home *** note that this prototype is a rough mockup of navigation only. it does _NOT_ represent the latest visual design iterations and the style sheet is not technically sound. Some links in the hierarchical navigation are active, some are not.[1]
- discuss navigation prototype and annotated navigation pages:


[Shawn gave an overview of the progress of the site redesign]
Time line: The plan is to do usability testing in the next 2 weeks, have a mostly complete functional prototype by end of November, and then have December to do testing in other browsers, and rolling out at end of December (2004)
SLH: is anyone able to do (informal) usability testing over the next week or two?
HB: would look at getting some colleagues to look at it.
AC: possibly he or some of his colleagues could look at it.
WD: could take it through his disabled student lab.
HBj: will try and look.
SP: if not too much content will take a look
HBj: has color scheme been decided yet?
SLH: no...that is behind schedule, so what will be looked at will be navigation. Will send a notice about progress.

Partial prototype of Navigation Design

- a partial prototype of the navigation design starts at: http://www.w3.org/2004/09/wai-nav/8-home
SLH: described the structure, asked for opinions.
Re: Getting Started
HB: nice logical summary of what we have done, also nice to see you are striving for a WAI Search function.
HB: On left side in grey box, the list of links duplicates what you see in the content pane.
SLH: walked us through the "site" navigation concept. Concept was designed and tested and donated by Cisco.
AA: likes it.
HBj: welcomed the walk through and it became clearer to her.
HB: behaviour of clicking on the plus or minus icons is not intuitive (for him)
JT: agrees with HB.
[There was some discussion of the technical aspects].
AA: suggested a "null" symbol when you were on the open page.
HB: would prefer to have clicking on the icon toggles open or closed.
[Some disagreement on method. Shawn will think about it. More testing is definitely required, but the general idea seems good.]
CL: thinks that the less experienced the user, the less problem they will have with the navigation because they have fewer preconceptions of how navigations should be done. "Experts" have their own favourites.

Ordering of content on Getting Started

LC: on Getting Started page suggests reordering content. Move quicktips up, overview of WAI down. Thinks people are coming to the site for help, not background on WAI.
AA: is alternative browsers important in Getting started?
SLH: that's where it is in the architecture. She reviewed the current order.
CL: move WAI overview to About WAI.
SLH: comments that the WAI Overview contains a lot of good info about Web accessibility.
HBj: suggests that if you are looking for info about accessibility you won't look in WAI overview.
[Consensus: take it out of Getting Started, put it in About WAI but link from appropriate documents]
LC: uncomfortable with alphabet soup of acronyms in the paragraph describing "Components of Web Accessibility"
CL: thinks acronyms are important for many more advanced users who don't know WAI but have heard of "WCAG".
HB: reminded Chuck that people who are beginners (the audience) won't know.
CL: was glad to be reminded who this section was for.
[Consensus: to revisit Alternative Browsing depending on whether the document is updated anytime soon.]

Numbering of content

SP: suggested making navigation links numbered list (e.g. 1, 1.1, 1.1.1 etc.) with corresponding numbers in content to improve personal navigation (knowing where you are in the hierarchy of documents).
HBj: agrees something like this would help her navigate back
AA: thinks the numbering would be visually confusing, especially when you get deep into suites (as many as 4 levels deep).
SP: thinks it would be better as ordered list to convey the structure.
SLH: will consider changing UL to OL but not do nested numbering. Will look at some other mechanism (e.g. A., 2., iii., d.)

General impressions

SLH: if you come to the site looking for WCAG can you find it?
DS: would not know.
AA: at one point we talked about quick links on the home page and now that the main page nav-cluster is short we could add it back, with WCAG in the quick links list.
SLH: talked about it in the Task Force and didn't do it for several reasons but now thinks the idea should be revisited.
AA: could use acronyms in quick links (WCAG, ATAG, UAAG), the (unplanned) overview of techniques pages
Somebody suggested: QuickTips, How PWD use the Web
SP: business case
[Consensus: a drop down menu would be good, although SLH doesn't really like them]
Action Item: SLH will take the idea of a dropdown quick link menu to the Task Force.

SP: thinks acronym WAI should be expanded or include some other textual indication that WAI is W3C.
Action Item: Sailesh will look at introductory sentence and see if the getting started page and introduction to accessibility is sufficient or if we need more.

WD: has general difficulties with navigation page and especially when using some text enlargement style sheet. The wide left-column menu chews up a lot of screen real-estate for enlarged views.
PP: finds navigating on Safari browser on a MAC pretty good. Doesn't like the long text string beside the WAI icon at the top of the page.
AA, JT: some problems with display in Firefox.

Overview and Introduction pages

Background (from agenda):

- update on status of:
Introduction to Web Accessibility:
Interdependent Components of Web Accessibility:
Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) Overview:
Navigating WCAG 1.0 Guidelines and Techniques Documents:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag10 (coming soon)
Introduction to Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 2.0 Working Draft Documents:
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines (UAAG) Overview:
Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines (ATAG) Overview:
Overview of the Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Slides:
- Any comments on Overview and Introduction pages go to:
wai-eo-editors@w3.org. Please indicate if your comments are suggestions for editor's discretion, high priority issues that require consideration in the current version, or ideas that could wait for a later version.


SLH: gave quick update of status of these items. Wants to go over them at least once more (herself). As a group, would like us to focus on an approach to getting Version 1 done and recording ideas for future edits. Please indicate if your comments are suggestions for editor's discretion, high priority issues that require consideration in the current version, or ideas that could wait for a later version.
[Consensus: sounds like a plan.]

Next Meeting

29 October 2004 [Tentative]

Last updated on $Date: 2005/08/18 14:50:42 $ by $Author: jthorp $