ISSUE-8: remove PRE from Structural model (purely presentational

PRE obolete & should be removed

remove PRE from Structural model (purely presentational

Raised by:
Gregory Rosmaita
Opened on:
as documented at:


in order to mark XHTML2 WG Action Item 70, in which i was asked to describe the problems with PRE:

as "pending review", here are my thoughts, suggestions & recommendations:

first, what precisely constitues, in the words of the latest editors'
draft of XHTML2, quote whitespace in the enclosed text [which] has
semantic relevance unquote? if one needs to preserve whitespace, such
as in an example of python code, one should either use code or
blockcode for that purpose, as the definition of the three elements
makes clear:




if explicitly designated as "code" an assistive technology could respect
and report the whitespaces contained in the string of code, something
which is not possible with the PRE element, unless each and every
whitespace to be preserved is explicitly expressed with a character entity

this would mitigate the necessity of definitively communicating
multi-modally the presence and number of whitespaces in an example through
the use of the character entity value of a "non-breaking space" (e.g.
  or either   or   (i'm not sure which is right, the first
value is from an online list, the second from XML 1.0 Fourth Edition) --
if the whitespace has "semantic meaning", then the amount of whitespace
MUST be explicitly expressed with markup (or the containing element MUST
respect and not conflate whitespace in strings marked with the CODE or
BLOCKCODE element) in order to make the number of whitespaces perceivable
(theoretically definable on a per-element basis through the "layout"
attribute), as well as endowing a human or assistive technology to process
the precise number of whitespaces correctly. therefore, best practice
would be to use either   or   or   for each whitespace the
author desires to be preserved, as variable space dileneation is a hallmark
of some programming languages, and a user needs the ability to count the
whitespaces (or have them correctly rendered when sent to a refreshable
braille display or when embossed into tactile braille)

optimally, one would want to use a character entity code to indicate a
TAB or multiple TABs, as some programming languages use TAB dilineation,
and the purpose of CODE and BLOCKCODE is to ENSURE that any user can
copy and paste the sample of CODE, with whitespaces and explicitly
declared TABs preserved...

so, since the following is explicitly stated in the current editors'
draft of XHTML2' Structural module:


Note that while historically one use of the pre element has been as a
container for source code, the new blockcode element more appropriate for


since the example of the "bad poem" in the definition of PRE should be
controlled either by style sheets, the "layout" attribute (set to
relevant) or the xml:space attribute, defined in Section 2.10 ("White
Space Handling") in the Fifth Edition of XML:

<quote cite="">

A special attribute named xml:space may be attached to an element to
signal an intention that in that element, white space should be
preserved by applications. In valid documents, this attribute, like
any other, must be declared if it is used. When declared, it must be
given as an enumerated type whose values are one or both of "default"
and "preserve". For example:

<!ATTLIST poem xml:space (default|preserve) 'preserve'>



since the "conformance definition" for whitespace in XHTML2 states:


White space must be handled according to the rules of [XML]. All XHTML 2
elements preserve whitespace.

The user agent must use the definition from CSS for processing white
space characters [CSS3-TEXT].


PROPOSED 1: the PRE element is no longer necessary, and therefore should
be removed from the XHTML2 Structural Model.

CAVEAT 1.1: at the VERY least -- PRE should be deprecated into a legacy
module, but removing it altogether will eliminate future headaches and
break authors of the lazy habit of using PRE; superior mechanisms other
than PRE, such as CODE and BLOCKCODE, have been introduced, and there is
widespread support for CSS to control columnization, thereby eliminating
another abuse of PRE.

PROPOSED 2: That the definition of CODE and BLOCKCODE be amended to
indicate that whitespace, line breaks, and other "layout" compenents
contained within CODE or BLOCKCODE is intended to be preserved, and that
all current references to the PRE element be removed.

PROPOSED 3: that the "bad poem" example be changed to reflect Section 2.10
of XML 1.0 Fifth Edition through the use of the xml:space "preserve"
attribute, as follows:

<!-- begin 'bad poem' example -->
<!-- in HEAD -->
<!ATTLIST poem xml:space (preserve) #FIXED 'preserve'>
<!-- in BODY -->
<!-- ... -->
<p xml:id="poem" layout="relevant" xml:space="preserve">
I had
any talent
I would
be a
<!-- end 'bad poem' example -->

PROPOSED 4: That the "bad poem" example be removed from the draft
altogether, an the use of spacing for stylistic effect be covered
elsewhere in the document (although this could also be, and perhaps
should be, handled by a pass-off to a CSS recommendation

Related Actions Items:
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Related emails:
  1. ISSUE-8 (PRE obolete & should be removed): remove PRE from Structural model (purely presentational [XHTML2] (from on 2009-07-01)

Related notes:

this was an inadvertently created when the issue was being logged

Gregory Rosmaita, 1 Jul 2009, 22:10:01

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