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Bug 6015 - [schema11] valid (and its derivations) vs assessment as used in text
Summary: [schema11] valid (and its derivations) vs assessment as used in text
Status: CLOSED FIXED
Alias: None
Product: XML Schema
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Structures: XSD Part 1 (show other bugs)
Version: 1.1 only
Hardware: PC Windows XP
: P2 normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: C. M. Sperberg-McQueen
QA Contact: XML Schema comments list
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: editorial, resolved
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2008-09-02 14:37 UTC by John Arwe
Modified: 2009-11-07 16:42 UTC (History)
3 users (show)

See Also:


Attachments

Description John Arwe 2008-09-02 14:37:34 UTC
2.1 Overview of XSD says
As it is used in this specification, the term "schema-validity assessment" has two aspects:
1 Determining local schema-validity, that is whether an element or attribute information item satisfies the constraints embodied in the relevant components of an XSD schema;
2 Synthesizing an overall validation outcome for the item, combining local schema-validity with the results of schema-validity assessments of its descendants, if any, and adding appropriate augmentations to the infoset to record this outcome.
Throughout this specification, [Definition:]  the word valid and its derivatives are used to refer to clause 1 above, the determination of local schema-validity.
Throughout this specification, [Definition:]  the word assessment is used to refer to the overall process of local validation, schema-validity assessment and infoset augmentation.

Comment 1: although it is in bold and called "the term", schema-validity 
           assessment is not rendered with the usual [Definition:] flag nor 
           does it appear in the glossary.

Comment 2: one might be tempted to think schema-validity assessment and 
           assessment are synonyms - I am keeping them separate, as I think you 
           intend

Comment 3: "validation" seems to me like a derivative of "valid".  According to 
           that reasoning, 'validation' should not be used in any context other 
           than local schema-validity.  This reasoning conflicts with its usage 
           in clause 2 (overall VALIDATION outcome).

Comment 4: If I try substituting definitions just within this excerpt above, it 
           becomes either circular or self-inconsistent.
> SVA = (LSV + OVO); OVO = LSV + SVA(desc) + InfosetAug; 
  assessment = L(S?)V + SVA(desc?) + InfosetAug
If I take it as written:
> SVA = (LSV + OVO); OVO = LSV + SVA(desc) + InfosetAug; 
  assessment = LV + SVA + InfosetAug
  - it's using a term (LV) that's not defined. 
If I take it as written and make the (small, likely) leap that LV should have been LSV
> SVA = (LSV + OVO); OVO = LSV + SVA(desc) + InfosetAug; 
  assessment = LSV + SVA + InfosetAug
  - Solving for SVA, since it is used in two places
    (LSV + (LSV+SVA(desc)+ InfosetAug) = LSV + InfosetAug - assessment
  - further assuming the two LSV l-values collapse into one, and cancelling 
    like terms
    SVA(desc) = (-) assessment
    If it weren't for (desc) on one side only, I'd call it close enough.
If instead I take it as I think you probably meant it:
> SVA(x) = (LSV(x) + OVO); OVO = LSV(x) + SVA(desc) + InfosetAug(x+desc); 
> assessment(x) = LSV(x) + SVA(desc) + InfosetAug(x+desc)
  - This leads to 
    SVA(x) = assessment(x) = LSV(x) + SVA(desc(x)) + InfosetAug(x+desc(x))
    - I think it functions, but it's just my best guess at what I think you 
      meant (and fwiw, doing it this way was the only thing that led me to see 
      the descendants qualifier in the OVO text)
  - Of course, SVA as a term sounds a lot like a derivation of validity to me, 
    which would be a contradiction.
  - Since you did not say what you meant by derivation, no way to know if we 
    are interpreting that word similarly.

1.5 Documentation Conventions and Terminology - error entry
note 1: "Failure of an XML document to be valid against a particular schema..."
By your own definitions in 2.1, I should interpret this to mean local schema validity of the document element, not the more conventional interpretation of assessment of the document element?

1.5 Documentation Conventions and Terminology - error entry
note 2: Notwithstanding the fact that (as just noted) failure to be schema-valid 
Same question.  Since term is not defined (here, or in - non-normative, why? - Glossary), I assume it is a derivation of valid.
	 
2.2 XSD Abstract Data Model - last paragraph of section before 2.2.1
"·Validation·, defined in detail in Schema Component Details (§3), is a relation between information items and schema components. For example, an attribute information item is ·validated·  with respect to an attribute declaration, a list of element information items with respect to a content model, and so on. The following sections briefly introduce the kinds of components in the schema abstract data model, other major features of the abstract model, and how they contribute to ·validation·."
So this is all about local schema-validity too?  Sounds like assessment to my unwashed ears.

2.2.1.1 Type Definition Hierarchy
"[Definition:]  A type defined with the same constraints as its ·base type definition·, or with more, is said to be a restriction.  The added constraints might include narrowed ranges or reduced alternatives. Given two types A and B, if the definition of A is a ·restriction· of the definition of B, then members of type A are always locally valid against type B as well."
By your own definitions in 2.1, I should interpret this to mean local schema validity of the element, not the more conventional interpretation of assessment of the document element?  I'm pretty sure this is your intent here, since you 
use a (new!) term: LOCALLY valid.  Seems like a pretty good one to use throughout where local validity is the intent, IMO.
Strictly speaking though, as narrowly defined today, I should be saying "locally valid" is definitionally redundant.

2.2.2.1 Element Declaration
"Element declarations contribute to ·validation· as part of model group ·validation·, when their defaults and type components are checked against an element information item with a matching name and namespace, and by triggering identity-constraint definition ·validation·."
·validation· does link back to 2.1 clause 1, fwiw.
The contextual use often makes me think you are trying to define a new term, for which the (lack of) [Definition:] rendering signals your presumed intent NOT to do so.

2.2.3.2 Particle
"Their validity does affect whether their parent is (recursively) valid as well as locally valid."
Local schema-validity is probably your intent here, but "(recursively) valid" leads to questions.

2.3 Constraints and Validation Rules
Schema Information Set Contribution
"[Definition:]  Augmentations to ·post-schema-validation infoset·s expressed by schema components, which follow as a consequence of ·validation· and/or ·assessment·."
In contrast to 2.1's definitions, this indicates that validation (local schema-validity _?_something but no not assessment____) also augments the infoset.
2.1 and 2.3 need to be consistent about it, and 2.1 usage of augmentation should likely link here.

3.1.3 The Mapping between XML Representations and Components
"items in a document being ·validated·."
Seems like this wants to be different: document element (if local is intended), being assessed (if assessment), document element being validated or assessed (if either, as I might imagine)

3.4.4.3 Element Sequence Locally Valid (Complex Content)
"[Definition:]    A sequence of element information items is locally valid with respect to a Content Type if and only if ..."
Here you define (on page 94 printed, when it was first used in the 20s) "locally valid", then do so in an element-specific way.
You actually define it again later (two Glossary entries), and use the same term in other places (with varying definitions, e.g. for attributes) without ever defining it.  Unless this document is intended only for wg participants, this does make it harder to read and understand unambiguously.

3.8.4.1 Language Recognition by Groups
"By contrast, V(M) takes account of those constraints and includes only the sequences which are ·locally valid· against M."
-This- "locally valid" links to 3.8.4.2 Principles of Validation against Groups (so the link is 'as intended' I think).

3.10.1 The Wildcard Schema Component - {process contents} strict + lax
"There must be a top-level declaration for the item available, or the item must have an xsi:type, and the item must be ·valid· as appropriate."
Both link to local schema-validity, hope that's your intent here.

3.13.4.1 Assertion Satisfied clause 1.1
"Note: It is a consequence of this rule that the [attributes] and [children] of E will be validated in the usual way."
Descendants sure makes it sounds like assessment.  No mention of descendants in the definition of valid (or its derivations).
Comment 1 John Arwe 2008-09-11 18:52:25 UTC
The SML working group chose to endorse this bug on its call of 2008-09-11
Comment 2 C. M. Sperberg-McQueen 2008-10-30 17:08:24 UTC
The XML Schema WG discussed this issue at today's ftf.  We note that this
issue overlaps with bug 5164, and concluded after discussion that like that
one this issue should be marked editorial.  

The editors are instructed to do what they can to clarify and regularize
our usage here, and in particular to attempt to distinguish consistently
between local validity and 'deep' validity.  (In particular, they should
remove the current text's claim that the unqualified term 'validity' 
refers to local validity, which is not true of current usage.)

Comment 3 John Arwe 2009-04-27 19:12:58 UTC
On its telecon of 2009-04-27, the SML working group expressed consensus that there were zero objections to Schema deferring resolution of this bug until after the CR drafts are issued.
Comment 4 David Ezell 2009-07-24 16:12:16 UTC
related to but 5164, resolution, whatever that is, will be in parallel to that bug.
Comment 5 C. M. Sperberg-McQueen 2009-10-29 18:11:22 UTC
A wording proposal intended to resolve bug 5164 and bug 6015 is now on the
server at

  http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/2004/06/xmlschema-1/structures.b5164.html
  (member-only link)

See bug 5194, comment 10, for a description.
Comment 6 C. M. Sperberg-McQueen 2009-10-30 20:59:52 UTC
The wording proposal mentioned in comment 5 was adopted, with amendments, by the XML Schema WG in its call today.  The amendments had the form of (a) adopting version B of the definitions of document validity, (b) moving them out of section 2.1 into a new section 2.4 on Schema-validity and documents, and making a few smaller changes.  The resulting form of the proposal (after amendment) can be seen (intermingled with the change for bug 7913, which is unrelated but which was also approved today) at 

  http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/2004/06/xmlschema-1/structures.nsq.html
  (member-only link; content subject to change, though none expected soon)

With this change the WG believes this issue has been resolved.

John, as the originator of the issue, please accept our thanks for holding our feet to the fire to make us clean this up.  Then please communicate the disposition to the SML WG, consider whether you and they are satisified with the WG's consideration and disposition of your comment, and indicate satisfaction by closing the issue or dissatisfaction by reopening it, in the usual way.  If we don't hear from you in the next two weeks we will assume that both you and the SML WG are satisfied.
Comment 7 John Arwe 2009-11-02 15:26:30 UTC
I (personally) am certainly happy with this draft.
Despite this, I hope no one's feet were overly singed in its making.
My compliments to the chef(s); I will queue up for discussion in the SML wg.
Comment 8 John Arwe 2009-11-07 16:42:10 UTC
Per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2009Nov/0001.html , the SML working group has unanimous consensus that this resolution is acceptable.