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Created attachment 1356 [details] Rendering of the example in text browser (w3m) and graphical browser with default styling (Firefox) In "Subheadings, subtitles, alternative titles and taglines" [1] there is an example for an album title: <h1>The Mothers <span>Fillmore East - June 1971</span> </h1> In text browsers (or in graphical browser without default styling) the whole heading will be displayed in one line. Because there is no delimiter it’s impossible to tell where the interpreter name stops and where the title begins (see the attached screenshot). Screen readers would probably read this as one line, too. I think it would be better to use the 'div' element instead of the 'span' element here. (Or alternatively use a delimiter. Or maybe the 'br' element might be appropriate here, but I’m not sure about that.) <h1>The Mothers <div>Fillmore East - June 1971</div> </h1> [1] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/common-idioms.html#sub-head
Some people from various stakeholder communities may find the reference to the Mother's at the Filmore, provocative. I think that was a main motivation for the album, No? How about a less controversial album such as, say... <h1>The Beatles <span>Rubber Soul - December 1965</span> </h1>
(In reply to comment #1) > Some people from various stakeholder communities may find the reference to > the Mother's at the Filmore, provocative. I think that was a main motivation > for the album, No? How about a less controversial album such as, say... > > <h1>The Beatles > <span>Rubber Soul - December 1965</span> > </h1> Hi dave, I am sure some people from various stakeholder communities may find the reference the beatles provocative. I am unaware of any particular controversy around this album, can you provide some specifics?
It's true that anything can be controversial, but I think the Filmore was a watershed in foul explicit language, and degradation of women. Here are some lyrics: http://www.metrolyrics.com/bwana-dik-lyrics-frank-zappa.html http://www.lyricsfreak.com/f/frank+zappa/willie+the+pimp+part+one_20702195.html http://www.metrolyrics.com/do-you-like-my-new-car-lyrics-frank-zappa.html Lots more like that...
(In reply to comment #3) > It's true that anything can be controversial, but I think the Filmore was a > watershed in foul explicit language, and degradation of women. > > > Here are some lyrics: > > http://www.metrolyrics.com/bwana-dik-lyrics-frank-zappa.html > http://www.lyricsfreak.com/f/frank+zappa/willie+the+pimp+part+one_20702195. > html > http://www.metrolyrics.com/do-you-like-my-new-car-lyrics-frank-zappa.html > Lots more like that... Thanks for the pointers, While i think the lyrics are not for everyone's consumption and may cause offense to some, I am finding it difficult to understand how the referencing of the album name would in itself cause offense. Are references to all zappa's albums out of bounds?
I totally admit Zappa was a genius, and I don't want to say whether his albums should be "out of bounds"... but I think it is common knowledge that he liked to push the moral envelope, and unfortunately women were part of the collateral damage. It is simply an example, and I don't see why we need to use provocative examples like spaghetti monsters and songs degrading women in order to show simple accessible examples... let's be more "agnostic" and objective...
(In reply to comment #5) > I totally admit Zappa was a genius, and I don't want to say whether his > albums should be "out of bounds"... but I think it is common knowledge that > he liked to push the moral envelope, and unfortunately women were part of > the collateral damage. > > It is simply an example, and I don't see why we need to use provocative > examples like spaghetti monsters and songs degrading women in order to show > simple accessible examples... let's be more "agnostic" and objective... Hi dave, I think the spaghetti monster example is more asinine than provocative. I don't think that you are being either agnostic or objective in your comments, but the example's inclusion is clearly something that you find offensive, so I will modify it.
Hmmm... I guess I do find the Live at the Filmore East kind of offensive, although I thought it was amazing when I was 14... I would not have any objection to an example using any of his Jazz or Techno albums, where he is showing off his musical genius.
Personally speaking, I was quite happy to see that example. I think the reference to that album is just fine. I don't find it offensive, respectfully disagree with David's characterisation of it, and think the reference should remain as is. (I am certainly offended by the reference to a Zappa "Techno" album, however!) That said, which artist/album is used is hardly crucial to the spec, so I won't argue against its replacement (unless it offends me).
(In reply to comment #7) > Hmmm... I guess I do find the Live at the Filmore East kind of offensive, > although I thought it was amazing when I was 14... > > I would not have any objection to an example using any of his Jazz or Techno > albums, where he is showing off his musical genius. Hi dave, I have changed the example http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/common-idioms.html#sub-head
(In reply to comment #0) > Created attachment 1356 [details] > Rendering of the example in text browser (w3m) and graphical browser with > default styling (Firefox) > > In "Subheadings, subtitles, alternative titles and taglines" [1] there is > an example for an album title: > > <h1>The Mothers > <span>Fillmore East - June 1971</span> > </h1> > > In text browsers (or in graphical browser without default styling) the whole > heading will be displayed in one line. Because there is no delimiter it’s > impossible to tell where the interpreter name stops and where the title > begins (see the attached screenshot). Screen readers would probably read > this as one line, too. > > I think it would be better to use the 'div' element instead of the 'span' > element here. (Or alternatively use a delimiter. Or maybe the 'br' element > might be appropriate here, but I’m not sure about that.) > > <h1>The Mothers > <div>Fillmore East - June 1971</div> > </h1> > > [1] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/common-idioms.html#sub-head Hi Stefan, Thanks for the feedback I will work on this. note: some browsers assign a paragraph role to elements that do not have a default role (such as span) when display:block is apllied screen readers interpret the CSS so read it as 2 lines. div is not allowed in hx
(In reply to comment #10) > div is not allowed in hx Ouch, how could I miss this?! Sorry.
I'm fine with the example now...
(In reply to comment #12) > I'm fine with the example now... great thanks Dave!
ps... for Jason, Here is Zappa jamming on a techno groove with Sven Vath https://soundcloud.com/#lostdog/frank-zappa-luke-slaters-7th-plain-deep-techno-guitar Great artists can play any style of music.
(In reply to comment #14) > ps... for Jason, Here is Zappa jamming on a techno groove with Sven Vath > > https://soundcloud.com/#lostdog/frank-zappa-luke-slaters-7th-plain-deep- > techno-guitar > > Great artists can play any style of music. I appreciate the effort, Dave, but that's just some guy named Stefano from Italy who two years ago mashed up some guitar tracks recorded by Zappa years previous. Zappa, being dead some time now, is not likely to have actively "jammed" along :)
I hope I sound that good when I'm dead ;)
EDITOR'S RESPONSE: This is an Editor's Response to your comment. If you are satisfied with this response, please change the state of this bug to CLOSED. If you have additional information and would like the Editor to reconsider, please reopen this bug. If you would like to escalate the issue to the full HTML Working Group, please add the TrackerRequest keyword to this bug, and suggest title and text for the Tracker Issue; or you may create a Tracker Issue yourself, if you are able to do so. For more details, see this document: http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html Status: Accepted Change Description: changed example to be less controversial Rationale: its an example only.
Already fixed.