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Bug 21123 - sorrt, had this on elements-0 incorrectly earlier. there is ambiguity here regarding whether a non-void normal element must have an end tag. mozilla seems to think that this section on normalelements [...]
Summary: sorrt, had this on elements-0 incorrectly earlier. there is ambiguity here re...
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Alias: None
Product: WHATWG
Classification: Unclassified
Component: HTML (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Hardware: Other other
: P3 normal
Target Milestone: Unsorted
Assignee: Ian 'Hixie' Hickson
QA Contact: contributor
URL: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/...
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
: 21122 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2013-02-26 10:50 UTC by contributor
Modified: 2013-04-26 23:25 UTC (History)
3 users (show)

See Also:

Attachments

Description contributor 2013-02-26 10:50:34 UTC 
Specification: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/syntax.html
Multipage: http://www.whatwg.org/C#normal-elements
Complete: http://www.whatwg.org/c#normal-elements

Comment:
sorrt, had this on elements-0 incorrectly earlier. there is ambiguity here
regarding whether a non-void normal element  must have an end tag. mozilla
seems to think that this section on normalelements means that close tags are
optional. therefore their bookmarks.html file doesn't all have close tags.
somehow this seems wrong. been this way for years. please clarify if non-void
elements must have both start and end tags.

Posted from: 71.59.228.22
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:19.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/19.0
Comment 1 Jim Michaels 2013-02-26 11:29:15 UTC 
"normal elements:" 
if you read it techically, neither the start nor end tag is required. so if you put in nothing, no way is left to identify the element. it's an improperly worded specification. it should say something like
"for a non-void, non-foreign element, either a start tag or an end tag or both is required."
OR
"for a non-void, non-foreign element, both a start tag and an end tag is required."
Comment 2 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2013-04-01 17:04:54 UTC 
*** Bug 21122 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 3 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2013-04-01 17:06:56 UTC 
It says: "The start and end tags of certain normal elements can be omitted, as described later. Those that cannot be omitted must not be omitted."

That seems unambiguous. Is that not sufficient?
Comment 4 Jim Michaels 2013-04-03 01:19:52 UTC 
ok, what defines "certain"? that's an undefined variable in a spec. what is what I was trying to clarify.
Comment 5 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2013-04-15 21:53:36 UTC 
It says "as described later", and the word before that, "omitted", is a link to the section taht describes, in detail, what tags can be omitted. I don't understand what's undefined or what you would like the spec to say instead to be clearer. Can you suggest a change that would address your concern?
Comment 6 Jim Michaels 2013-04-16 07:12:54 UTC 
I just saw what you were saying in this document. the "omitted" link applies to the problem at hand quite well ans answers my question. what was throwing me off was the open-ended "as described later" (to which the casual reader will ask "where? where?")

I don't know if this will be within the style format of your document or not. and it's only a slight suggestion and clarification.
possibly change 
"The start and end tags of certain normal elements can be omitted, as described later."
to 
"The start and end tags of certain normal elements can be omitted, as described later in 12.1.2.4."

it's a minor thing, but not only would it clear things up for people (like me formerly). it might stop the duplicate bug reports on this subject. :-)
hope this helps.
Jim Michaels
Comment 7 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2013-04-26 23:24:11 UTC 
Yeah I can be more explicit like that, sure.
Comment 8 contributor 2013-04-26 23:25:36 UTC 
Checked in as WHATWG revision r7856.
Check-in comment: Be clearer about where this is defined.
http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=7855&to=7856