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Bug 13447 - SVG content model VENN diagram needs to be made accessible [3.2.5.1 Kinds of content/content-venn.svg].
Summary: SVG content model VENN diagram needs to be made accessible [3.2.5.1 Kinds of ...
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Alias: None
Product: HTML WG
Classification: Unclassified
Component: LC1 HTML5 spec (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Hardware: PC All
: P2 normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Ian 'Hixie' Hickson
QA Contact: HTML WG Bugzilla archive list
URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-html5-20...
Whiteboard:
Keywords: a11y, a11ytf
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2011-07-29 07:35 UTC by Joshue O Connor
Modified: 2012-01-24 21:08 UTC (History)
8 users (show)

See Also:

Attachments

Description Joshue O Connor 2011-07-29 07:35:27 UTC 
Issues  On focus the SVG diagram container is just announces as Frame 0. This is in breach of WCAG as the frame needs a suitable title that describes the diagram such as @longdesc or ARIA describedby.

Also the SVG diagram isnt keyboard accessible, the descriptions of each of the nodes only appear on mouse over events. They should also be able to be triggered via the keyboard. 

The fallback diagram content-venn.png for where SCG is un-supported etc also needs alternate text to be applied in a way that is accessible. It currently isnt, as the alternate text of the .png document is not announced when the diagram is parsed by Assistive Technology.
Comment 1 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2011-07-29 16:33:13 UTC 
EDITOR'S RESPONSE: This is an Editor's Response to your comment. If you are satisfied with this response, please change the state of this bug to CLOSED. If you have additional information and would like the editor to reconsider, please reopen this bug. If you would like to escalate the issue to the full HTML Working Group, please add the TrackerRequest keyword to this bug, and suggest title and text for the tracker issue; or you may create a tracker issue yourself, if you are able to do so. For more details, see this document:
   http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html

Status: Rejected
Change Description: no spec change
Rationale:

The entire diagram is completely redundant with information already in the spec. The spec itself is its alternative text. It's just a way to expose the information to visual users in a way optimised for visual users. Non-visual users already have the information presented in a way optimised for them.
Comment 2 Peter Winnberg 2011-07-30 11:19:48 UTC 
If you think the image is completely redundant then remove it. Leaving it as it is right now with the accessibility issues that it is has is not an option in a document that is supposed to be about best practice for creating documents on the web.
Comment 3 Joshue O Connor 2011-07-30 16:34:57 UTC 
(In reply to comment #1)
> EDITOR'S RESPONSE: This is an Editor's Response to your comment. [...]

> The entire diagram is completely redundant with information already in the
> spec. The spec itself is its alternative text. 

I don't really follow.  Can you please point out how the 'spec is the @alt of the diagram'?

> It's just a way to expose the
> information to visual users in a way optimised for visual users. 

I think its a good diagram and I like the way the various content (metadata, Flow content models etc) are demonstrated on mouse over in browsers like Safari, FF (doesn't work in Opera 11.5).

> Non-visual
> users already have the information presented in a way optimised for them.

To me, there is no real programatically determined relationship between the diagram and the spec content. It seems more self contained but just inaccessible for the reasons stated.
Comment 4 Joshue O Connor 2011-07-30 16:36:43 UTC 
(In reply to comment #2)
> If you think the image is completely redundant then remove it. Leaving it as it
> is right now with the accessibility issues that it is has is not an option in a
> document that is supposed to be about best practice for creating documents on
> the web.

I think it would be a pity to remove it, it just needs that little 'extra' to make it accessible IMO.
Comment 5 Peter Winnberg 2011-07-30 19:58:13 UTC 
(In reply to comment #4)
> I think it would be a pity to remove it, it just needs that little 'extra' to
> make it accessible IMO.

Yes, I think that would be the best solution as well because I think it does add some value to the specification.
Comment 6 Michael[tm] Smith 2011-08-04 05:00:54 UTC 
mass-moved component to LC1
Comment 7 steve faulkner 2011-08-17 08:14:21 UTC 
the venn diagram in question also includes content that is currently displayed ONLY on mouse over. This content needs to be made to display in an input device indepenedent manner.
Comment 8 steve faulkner 2011-08-17 08:31:02 UTC 
(In reply to comment #7)
> the venn diagram in question also includes content that is currently displayed
> ONLY on mouse over. This content needs to be made to display in an input device
> indepenedent manner.


apologies didn't read the bug correctly, the keyboard issue is already covered
Comment 9 steve faulkner 2011-08-17 10:51:33 UTC 
(In reply to comment #1)
> EDITOR'S RESPONSE: This is an Editor's Response to your comment. If you are
> satisfied with this response, please change the state of this bug to CLOSED. If
> you have additional information and would like the editor to reconsider, please
> reopen this bug. If you would like to escalate the issue to the full HTML
> Working Group, please add the TrackerRequest keyword to this bug, and suggest
> title and text for the tracker issue; or you may create a tracker issue
> yourself, if you are able to do so. For more details, see this document:
>    http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html
> 
> Status: Rejected
> Change Description: no spec change
> Rationale:
> 
> The entire diagram is completely redundant with information already in the
> spec. The spec itself is its alternative text. It's just a way to expose the
> information to visual users in a way optimised for visual users. Non-visual
> users already have the information presented in a way optimised for them.

I have provided a simple example solution to this issue:
http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2011/08/html5-accessibility-chops-interactive-image-example/
Comment 10 steve faulkner 2011-08-17 13:57:09 UTC 
added TrackerRequest keyword
Comment 11 steve faulkner 2011-08-19 08:22:56 UTC 
(In reply to comment #1)
> EDITOR'S RESPONSE: This is an Editor's Response to your comment. If you are
> satisfied with this response, please change the state of this bug to CLOSED. If
> you have additional information and would like the editor to reconsider, please
> reopen this bug. If you would like to escalate the issue to the full HTML
> Working Group, please add the TrackerRequest keyword to this bug, and suggest
> title and text for the tracker issue; or you may create a tracker issue
> yourself, if you are able to do so. For more details, see this document:
>    http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html
> 
> Status: Rejected
> Change Description: no spec change
> Rationale:
> 
> The entire diagram is completely redundant with information already in the
> spec. The spec itself is its alternative text. It's just a way to expose the
> information to visual users in a way optimised for visual users. Non-visual
> users already have the information presented in a way optimised for them.

I asked for some feedback from actual 'non-visual' users on my proposed solution:
http://twitter.com/#!/stevefaulkner/status/104104287671554048
reponses so far:
http://twitter.com/#!/LeonieWatson/status/104458860114358272
http://twitter.com/#!/vick08/status/104234825958965248
http://twitter.com/#!/ezufelt/status/103783313424125952

http://twitter.com/#!/stevefaulkner/status/104126540022956032
http://twitter.com/#!/DesignedByBlind/status/104130426628616192
http://twitter.com/#!/DesignedByBlind/status/104133743316451329
Comment 12 steve faulkner 2011-08-23 08:10:44 UTC 
Thhought I would re-open the bug (and remove the trackerrequest keyword) to give the editor the opprotunity to reconsider his WONTFIX position given the new input provided, rather than have to escalate the bug to a HTML WG issue.
Comment 13 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2011-12-02 17:39:58 UTC 
I'll move the textual description of the image to after the image, as requested.
Comment 14 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2012-01-24 21:08:39 UTC 
EDITOR'S RESPONSE: This is an Editor's Response to your comment. If you are satisfied with this response, please change the state of this bug to CLOSED. If you have additional information and would like the editor to reconsider, please reopen this bug. If you would like to escalate the issue to the full HTML Working Group, please add the TrackerRequest keyword to this bug, and suggest title and text for the tracker issue; or you may create a tracker issue yourself, if you are able to do so. For more details, see this document:
   http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html

Status: Accepted
Change Description: see diff given below
Rationale: see comment 13