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Verbose (As Long As Necessary) Descriptor Requirements Purpose The purpose of a verbose descriptor is to describe an image. Such a description is essential for users who can not see, but who need access to information contained in a graphic. While verbose descriptors provide an important accommodation for the blind and visually impaired, a verbose descriptor can also be used by those with an extremely limited viewport or with cognitive difficulties as a guide to navigating and comprehending the described image. This means that the exposition of a verbose descriptor must not be an "either-or" proposition; rather, the user should be able to control the means of exposing the verbose descriptor, including the ability to simultaneously view the contents of the image and the contents of the verbose description. Programmatically Determinable Programmatically determinable [1] relates to the information in web content. If technologies that are accessibility supported are used properly, then assistive technologies and user agents can access the information in the content (i.e., programmatically determine the information in the content) and present it to the user. For instance longdesc as an attribute should be used as a hook by user agents and asssistive technologies in order to notify the user that a long description exists, so even if longdesc is applied to an image that also serves as a link, it is programmatically possible to separate the activation of the longdesc for exposure from the UA's universal link activation action (which is usually activated with the ENTER key, the SpaceBar, or by mouse click), so that the linked image retains the expected behavior in response to user interaction while a discrete mechanism is used to retrieve the long description. Issue Due to the chairs' ruling, on HTML5 ISSUE-30 [2], excluding @longdesc, but failing to provide an alternate mechanism to provide the functions that had been provided through the HTML 4 attribute longdesc [3] there is currently no means of providing a programmatically bound verbose (as long as necessary) description for an image. Those functions are: 1. A direct, reusable programmatic determinable mechanism to a long description of an image without a forced visual encumbrance or default visual indicator. 2. A method to reference a longer description of an image, without including the content in the main flow of a page. Many images cannot be sufficiently described with other long description techniques. For instance, longdesc currently provides a solution for describing the content of images to the blind when it would be: * Visually apparent and redundant to a sighted person. * Unacceptable to the marketing department due to aesthetic considerations. There is currently absolutely no other direct way of doing that without a longdesc. Requirements 1. A programmatic mechanism to reference a specific set of structured content, internal (enhanced describedby model) or external (HTML4 longdesc model) to the document containing the described image. 2. A way to inform users and authors that a description is present/available. 3. A device independent way to access the descriptive content. 4. An explicit provision that accessing descriptive content, whether internal or external to the document containing the image, does NOT take the user away from the user's position in the document containing the image where the verbose descriptor was invoked; 5. A way to provide user control over exposition of the descriptor so that rendering of the image and its description is not an either/or proposition. (A visual indicator of the description should NOT be a forced visual encumbrance on sighted users by default). 6. A method to reference a longer description of an image, without including the content in the main flow of a page. Satisfying These Requirements for HTML5 OPTIONS: 1. retain support for longdesc; allow for exposition of longdesc via user agent preference, context menu, or toggle inline as well as for simultaneous exposition of both the image and its description (useful for those with very limited viewports or users with cognitive issues, who may need a description to guide and to assist in the user's understanding of the image being described); * advantage: 2 major browsers already support longdesc natively and are expected to continue to do so as part of their support for HTML4x; 2. add support for aria-describedby and deprecate longdesc in HTML5; * drawback 1: aria-describedby is currently limited to text that appears in the same document as the image being described; * drawback 2: The content associated using aria-describedby as currently implemented, is limited to unstructured text; 3. add support for external references and structured content to the aria-describedby attribute in HTML5 and deprecate longdesc; 4. Mint a describedby attribute for the img element (HTML5 Bug 10455) [4] Research * [5] Longdesc Examples In the Wild * [6] Longdesc Guidelines, Laws, Policy, and Standards Related Resources * HTML 5 Issue: Image Equivalent Content (HTML WG Wiki page) * Chairs' decision on HTML WG Issue-30 (longdesc) o cover letter for Chairs' decision on HTML WG Issue 30 (longdesc) o HTML WG Issue-30 (longdesc) References: [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/conformance.html#uc-programmatically-determined-head [2] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/30 [3] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/objects.html#adef-longdesc-IMG [4] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10455 [5] http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/research/ld.html#wild [6] http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/research/ld.html#glps [7] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/LongdescRetention [8] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Aug/att-0112/issue-30-decision.html [9] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Aug/0112.html [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Aug/0112.html [11] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/30 (the logger of this bug thanks laura carlson and steven faulkner for their contributions to the wiki page on which this bug report is based http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs)
Why is the <p> element not sufficient? Do you have a concrete page we could use to discuss this showing the problem in question? (It can be an artificially simple page that just has the relevant content, if you like.)
(In reply to comment #1) > Why is the <p> element not sufficient? > > Do you have a concrete page we could use to discuss this showing the problem in > question? (It can be an artificially simple page that just has the relevant > content, if you like.) I am sure that Gregory will also respond, but to me the relevant section in his bug report is the following: " 2. A method to reference a longer description of an image, without including the content in the main flow of a page. I'm assuming the text about being able to provide this in such a way that it's not visible to sighted users is also relevant. We did not deprecate longdesc, which has a two part aspect to it: discourage use AND provide an equivalent or superior approved technique. All we did is make it obsolete, leaving the functionality it provided unfulfilled. However, I think this is a duplicate of another bug? One that Laura filed? The following? http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10455 It got assigned to Paul Cotton, so not sure what's going on.
EDITOR'S RESPONSE: This is an Editor's Response to your comment. If you are satisfied with this response, please change the state of this bug to CLOSED. If you have additional information and would like the editor to reconsider, please reopen this bug. If you would like to escalate the issue to the full HTML Working Group, please add the TrackerRequest keyword to this bug, and suggest title and text for the tracker issue; or you may create a tracker issue yourself, if you are able to do so. For more details, see this document: http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html Status: Did Not Understand Request Change Description: no spec change Rationale: Gregory, please see comment 1. Thanks.
Removing TrackerRequest as this is already covered by ISSUE-30.
Bug triage sub-team adding TrackerIssue keyword since this is related to ISSUE-30.
It's inappropriate to remove TrackerRequest because this bug is only incidentally related to the Issue 30 decision. The Issue 30 decision made longdesc obsolete, but did not provide any alternative method. This bug is about providing an alternative. The editor refuses to do so, therefore it is acceptable to handle this request separate from Issue 30. I noticed that a TrackerIssue keyword has been added for this item, but it's been tied to Issue 30. Issue 30 is a done deal, it's over and done with. There is a formal objection tied to that decision, but that shouldn't stop work on creating a viable alternative. It's important that the HTML WG work consistently, and the effort around this bug has been anything but consistent. It's also important that the co-chairs allow the process they designed to actually work, and for the W3C to honor its own procedural commitments. I agree on this being a TrackerIssue. I do not agree that this should be associated with a previously decided issue, because this bug is not asking that longdesc be returned, but that something be created to provide the functionality that longdesc provided. The original bug provided very clear and very concise requirements for this replacement.
This bug is directly related to Issue-30: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/30 The HTML WG co-chairs believe that this bug has been addressed by the WG's decision on ISSUE-30. /rubys on behalf of the HTML WG co-chairs
We discussed this on the a11y TF call, and agree with Sam's assessment that this is covered by issue 30.
Given that the longdesc extension is currently a FPWD[1], the TF has decided to close this bug. [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/html-longdesc/