Meeting minutes
New PR Triage
<github-bot> I can't comment on that because it doesn't look like a github issue to me.
<spectranaut_> w3c/
jamesn: I've reviewed. Added peter and Valerie, this doesn't need anymore
jamesn: errors aren't in spec, in comments and other places that aren't as important.
jamesn: the only one i noticed for you is a misspelling of one of the roles for core-aam, it's a computed role so i want to make sure nothing is using it
<spectranaut_> lola: this is from issue 608 in html-aam adding a new row to the spec for link with a click handler on it, in alignment with major browsers: w3c/
hatheo: i can review
siri: me too
spectranaut_: we should have an editor of html-aam too
New Issue Triage
<github-bot> I can't comment on that because it doesn't look like a github issue to me.
spectranaut_: we have issue from CSS working group to discuss overview:clip, should we agenda it?
johnjansen: we discussed this last week and people were confused by how this work.
jcraig: this affects more than just voiceover users, screen reader users can skip over the long text. yes it should remain exposed, it's not an error
spectranaut_: I think this is something we should rediscussed
Matt_King: we should discuss and go through demo
spectranaut_: we can discuss next week
johnjansen: james if you have any test, that'd be great
jcraig: we haven't had anything to test yet
jamesn: real world usecases would be good. Abstract example doesn't properly show the issue.
johnjansen: HuffPost is a good example, any long example
jcraig: can you add that example to the issue to please?
johnjansen: yup
WPT Open PRs
<github-bot> I can't comment on that because it doesn't look like a github issue to me.
spectranaut_: rego is looking at test type fixtures. I'll look at this
Deep Dive planning
<github-bot> I can't comment on that because it doesn't look like a github issue to me.
Define proper AT exposure for aria-colindex when web authors specify this value on a row
spectranaut_: this is a request from a firefox developer. If aria-col-index should the browser also expose the value on all cells in the row?
Matt_King: that's difficult to understand. how can you have 5 colomns with the same col-index?
jamesn: I think this may be a copy paste error. it should be row-index right?
jcraig: it might also be talking about first column header which would then cascade down to each row?
Matt_King: is the row-index already not supported?
spectranaut_: maybe this is a typo?
jamesn: what does it say in the spec?
Matt_King: we actually have an APG example for this
jamesn: explains specification
spectranaut_: They want to just know if aria-col should be indicated. and I think it does
jamesn: I think it does
spectranaut_: any agreement from the group?
Keith: anyone try to just open the example?
spectranaut_: I don't see aria-colindex communicated in computed properties, sounds like this would be a bug on browsers.
spectranaut_: sound like there is agreement that it needs to be communicated, right?
Matt_King: yes, this is one of these situations where if you expose invalid options it would cause problem.
group agrees
Matt_King: proposes that we should consider the author fails to provide values then he user agent must not expose it.
jamesn: I would be wary of exposing the author must not do something here.
jamesn: did we say this was in aria, should it not be in core-aim?
spectranaut_: my understanding is that aria exposes where implicit items are communicated. e.g. in the case of a default value.
jamesn: my understanding is platform inconsistencies that should be mapped in core-aam.
spectranaut_: we should/might have to write a core-aam test to test this.
jamesn: this seems very similar to we expose things like number of list item calculations, we should think carefully about how we expose this.
<jamesn> https://
jamesn: it seems very similar to this
spectranaut_: I am ready to move on, but we don't have concrete next steps.
jamesn: we have a decision which is good progress.
spectranaut_: added help wanted
interactive elements contained in button?
spectranaut_: we talked about this last week, and James Craig, had a open question.
jamesn: this shows up as an issue mostly when you are using voice over with chrome.
jcraig: I am familiar with that particular concern. we could consider this but that would be likely shipped as an experimental feature.
Matt_King: can you clarify what this is?
jcraig: Buttons have always not exposed children, but we found this changed in chrome and we are wondering if this could cause web compatibility fallout.
Matt_King: just to clarify so we are exploring if buttons can have children in the A11y Tree.
jcraig: yes, that is the exploration.
Matt_King: I've noticed that this(children of button) happens quite frequently in invoice payment, and you have to use NVDA Advanced Navigation.
jcraig: have you tested this and found it performs better in safari?
Matt_King: no, I have only looked at this in Windows and found that this requires the usage of Advanced features within NVDA. And with the information exposed in this way there are a very small usage of people who can do that.
jcraig: can you clarify the case? I am not sure it is the same.
jcraig: that seems like it is the case actually, can you share a URL?
Matt_King: one was for a landscaping invoice/payment.
jcraig: do you remember enough to conjure up a test case here?
Matt_King: yes, it's also worth noting we noticed a recovery technique where browsers were taking the child elements and making them siblings.
spectranaut_: it sounds like James you are willing to take this on and explore can I assign this to you?
spectranaut_: this would just be about thinking about how VoiceOver handles buttons with things inside of it.
Matt_King: did we catch from last week the cases where the browser expose children as siblings as a recovery technique. if we could do that it seems like it would be very powerful.
<spectranaut_> ack keithamus
Jacques: I think it's worth exploring, but I would like to make sure we make sure the Accessibility tree matches the structure of HTML
Keith: I would second what Jacques said, I think there is a lot of potential for synchronization issues and other bugs.
<Jacques> Clarification for the minutes: I am not against exploring, I think the effort might be worth it, just want to take cation.
Matt_King: I was considering this strictly as a recovery mechanism, and would imagine it should still show issues in the console.
Matt_King: I like to read the console
giacomo-petri: can I ask something to James?
… I am pretty sure a while ago I tried this.
<HaTheo> s/I am not worth exploring/I think it's worth exploring/