W3C

– DRAFT –
MATF 10 June 2026

10 June 2026

Attendees

Present
JJ, PaulJAdam, ryomtoob, shoobe01, Tanya, tayef
Regrets
Joe_Humbert, qbalsdon
Chair
Tanya
Scribe
JJ

Meeting minutes

<Tanya as temporary MATF facilitator>

Tanya will facilitate this meeting, and the next 3-4.

Milestone 2 issue list

Tanya: Introduces herself, works together with Jan Jaap at Abra in product owner / auditor role, will be facilitating the next meetings while Jan Jaap is on parental leave.

<Tanya> https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20milestone%3A%22Second%20Draft%22

Tanya: Shows list of open issues for Milestone 2

Tanya: if there is no assignee yet for an open issue, please assign yourself if you can work on it

Tanya: Shows 2.5.7 - need to update link to definition when it is finished - no assignee yet who will take care of this

Tanya: shows a couple more issues, we are close to completing all of them but need to finish the drafts in the next weeks

Tanya: Focus is to complete milestone 2; so we can move on to milestone 3 with new success criteria to discuss

Success Criterion 2.5.3 - Label in Name

Tanya: This was discussed last week

Related GitHub issue: w3c/matf#39 (comment)

Tanya: Conclusion of last week was to keep the note about custom accessibility actions, but modify the wording. Detlev is assigned to draft it.

Tanya: We will discuss this in next meeting after draft is available.

Tanya: Any questions?

pauljadam: Suggests to remove the note 2.

pauljadam: OK to wait on Detlev's proposal

JJ: Meeting notes available at https://www.w3.org/2026/06/03-matf-minutes.html#0b65

(JJ is updating the GitHub issues with the minutes this week)

Tanya: we keep moving in circles on this note, we will await the draft and then double check with the group.

Success Criterion 2.5.8 - Target Size (Minimum)

w3c/matf#10 (comment)

Related minutes from last week: https://www.w3.org/2026/06/03-matf-minutes.html#5e8b

Tanya: We need to figure out the best format for the research done by shoobe01

Tanya: Kevin White (W3C Staff) and Hidde de Vries (W3C ex-staff) were asked if a "Statement" could be an appropriate document type for touch target size recommendations.

Tanya: Shows note about Web User Agents as example

https://www.w3.org/TR/web-user-agents/

Google Doc created by shoobe01: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qbmifBKu_vTXOxbkj6gKOHwBsf-7NVtni0HUkFOgO6k/edit?usp=sharing

currently at 12 pages.

3 pages of references.

Tanya: we'll see how to move forward with this. Can we share it with others?

JJ: Will share it with Hidde to get feedback

<shoobe01> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qbmifBKu_vTXOxbkj6gKOHwBsf-7NVtni0HUkFOgO6k/edit?usp=sharing

shoobe01: will continue finetuning.

Tanya: We need to figure out how to link to this draft document or note in the future from the Success Criterion itself

JJ: Suggest to link to Google Docs URL in the note for now. In the future we can update URL. If URL changes, we can put banner in Google Doc that mentions new URL.

shoobe01: asks about the note that is needed, what is the plan?

Tanya: confirms that we will now add note with 1 paragraph about reasons to use larger target size

JJ: This target size document can influence WCAG 3 in future. Unlikely WCAG2 will change

Definitions

Miro board: https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVGCgwkGY=/?share_link_id=724271040664

Tanya: Underlaying layer drafts: w3c/matf#270 (comment)

Tanya: The diagrams in Miro have been updated. What we need to do now is to draft the text.

Tanya: for underlaying layers, which layers do we have, and who is responsible

Tanya: user agent is an important one.

Tanya: asks shoobe01 to give update on miro

shoobe01: diagram structure is coming along pretty well. user agent replaced web(view). no problem there.

shoobe01: but we cannot say platform software because that already had a different meaning

shoobe01: need to figure out a name for that layer.

shoobe01: and avoid conflicts with other definitions.

Tanya: Looking at WCAG2ICT; they have platform software (showing WCAG2ICT doc).

shoobe01: layer jumping is not going to work with 1:1 platform software definiton because it fits too broadly

<Zakim> JJ, you wanted to ask about overriding definitions

JJ: Mentions it is possible to 'override' definitions from WCAG or WCAG2ICT with notes or making text replacements - but watch out for changing the meaning too much - meant for nuances

Tanya: brainstorming about the definitions in diagram

Tanya: the need for these definitions originally came from success criteria that have exemptions

Tanya: let's move to other definitions

Tanya: Cross-platform framework.

w3c/matf#84

JJ: It was part of w3c/matf#84 (comment) overview, whether something is 'native' e.g. exception or '3rd party' e.g. no exception

Tanya: suggestion was that MATF could provide overview of which frameworks are native, and which one not

JJ: Mentions some of the background on cross-platform frameworks and the difficulty of defining what is native and what is not.

JJ: the framework alone does not guarantee something is 'native', e.g. using Jetpack Compose or SwiftUI doesn't mean it is unmodified component, could till be custom

Tanya: In WCAG2ICT they explicitly mention user agent should be applied differently, they add platform software in addition to user agent - so exception is broader

Tanya: Here we are also going in circles, it would be good to make a decision and go with that for now

Tanya: have a look at Miro diagram and definitions

<Tanya> w3c/matf#270 (comment)

^ latest proposals for definitions

discussing this proposal: w3c/matf#270 (comment)

Tanya: finetuning needed, but going in the right direction

Tanya: how does the group feel about "Application" definition" (Moving way from platform software from WCAG2ICT)

shoobe01: application is not mobile specific, it is a commonly used term in software

JJ: Agrees that Application could work

Tanya: need to be careful with exceptions. application level? or framework level?

Tanya: please look at the miro board and definitions for next week.

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 248 (Mon Oct 27 20:04:16 2025 UTC).

Diagnostics

All speakers: JJ, pauljadam, shoobe01, Tanya

Active on IRC: JJ, ryomtoob, shoobe01, Tanya