Meeting minutes
This meeting
Nigel: It looks like we can go directly to IMSC on the agenda.
… Does anyone want to raise any other business for the agenda?
No other business
IMSC 1.3
Japanese character set w3c/imsc#614
github: w3c/
Nigel: We have some feedback from ARIB
… What's the status now?
Pierre: Atsushi has asked for text to be added that requires conformance with IVS
Atsushi: What ARIB is used is standard IVS and IVD specificied in ISO ?? spec
… I asked to remove CJK Compatibility Ideographs, and add a note on using IVS for ideographic characters. This is background material for that
Pierre: My concern is IVD is huge, with lots of unrelated stuff. Can we just include a list of the 19 glyphs?
Atsushi: ARIB-STD-62 refers to IVD ...
Pierre: My objection from the beginning about referencing IVD is that it's unbounded, and we don't want people to have to support all of IVD just to support the Japanese character set
… Can we copy the list?
Atsushi: I believe so. I'm not sure exactly where they are
<atsushi> https://
Atsushi: I found the English version
… Look at the second table
English translation of Fascicle 2
Nigel: Found it, Table 7-8, page 3-63, Fascicle 2
Table 7-8 in section 7.4.4 includes the 19 IVS characters
Pierre: I'll add it to the PR
Nigel: In Section 8.4.1, it says the ideographic variation sequence is not operated.
Atsushi: This is not a standard, but an operational recommendation
… In the discussion in Japan, they list commonly used variation selector characters. We mention Table 5.2 and 3 in the IMSC document
… I believe this is just a set of characters that are actually used in current broadcast systems
Pierre: Not sure how to interpret that sentence, Nigel. Atsushi, what does the original say?
Atsushi: I don't have access, I only have the text provided by Ohnata-san
Nigel: I think those sequences have proven useful, but not actually required
Pierre: I recommend drafting the PR and ask ARIB for feedback
Atsushi: The table in 7.4.4 are commonly used in broadcasting in Japan. It describes fallback operation, commonly used for IVS and IVD characters.
… Not all fonts support IVD glyphs, as IVD includes several sets of variation sequences
… But in any case, I'll ask Ohnata-san
Nigel: I'll also look at the re-ordering PR
SUMMARY: @palemieux to add the 19 IVS, @himorin to check details with contact
APA WG comment: semantic layers w3c/imc#524
github: w3c/
Nigel: I've been thinking about this. The goal of having better metadata to describe the semantics of the kinds of content in the document is a good one
… We've tried to express that via DAPT metdata. We're missing any implementer feedback so far, e.g., player behaviour that makes use of them
… So it's too soon for IMSC 1.3. I'm excited by this in principle, though. You could have some combination of DAPT and IMSC, and the player could choose which resource to present
… That would be possible. But I don't see what change we could make in IMSC to reflect current practice
Pierre: I agree. Metadata without behaviour isn't really useful, and that's not settled.
Nigel: I can take an action item to write a comment that says that what you want to do is possible through upstream workflows.
… They suggest doing it at runtime, which might mean selecting between resources, or modifying the behaviour of the resource being presented
… But as long as you get the effect you want, it's ok
… We'd be happy to take this on, but no change at the moment
… I'm thinking about a breakout session to discuss authoring workflows that might produce IMSC, based on translation, transcription, dubbing scripts, using DAPT and IMSC
… and understanding how the different information gathered on the way can be used
… For example, sound effects in audio. Extract subsets and present as IMSC. Then how to express that, e.g., in the IMSC document or externally?
… If you think this is a good idea for a breakout, I'll prepare it. Or other ideas for breakouts?
SUMMARY: @nigelmegitt to explain thoughts about workflow as discussed, and propose breakout session
Meeting close
Nigel: Next meeting on 26th Feb
Nigel: Thanks everyone. [adjourns meeting]