Meeting minutes
<jsahleen> agenda
<jsahleen> Yes, as you instructed. How to resurrect?
<jsahleen> Not that I recall, unless we want to add Makoto-san's rewrites
Agenda
Action Items
<addison> https://
<addison> #197
<gb> Action 197 rename the repo and shortname and publish ruby accessibility document as a first draft note (on xfq, himorin) due 2025-11-18
jsahleen: This came out of TPAC?
<xfq> https://
xfq: Yes. There is also a document ruby text to speech
jsahleen: Makoto's doc?
xfq: Yes. Published as draft note, with a different shortname.
jsahleen: No normative sections?
xfq: No, it's a Note.
addison: Add it to editors?
xfq: Yes, I will do.
… We'll use the name without "s". Will ask Atsushi to rename or I'll d it myself.
r12a: And then send it for wide review?
xfq: Yes. It still has open issues, but can review it.
addison: It's a ‘draft note’, so not done.
<xfq> https://
xfq: Yes, that's what we resolved. See minutes here ^^
r12a: So send for review, then fix it, then publish as Note.
addison: So still in progress.
<addison> #196
<gb> Action 196 remind @duerst to create a list of gaps in URL standard (on aphillips, duerst) due 2025-11-17
jsahleen: Other action to remind Martin ^^
addison: I couldn't assign it to MArtin, so I assigned it to myself.
… Haven't heard back from him yet.
JcK: Which URL standard?
addison: I think it is the WHATWG thing.
JcK: In IETF there is a clear boundary between URLs with only ASCII and IRIs.
xfq: Discussion was to find shortcomings in WHATWG spec
… And if they are fixed it can replace the IETF spec.
addison: We'll no doubt talk about IRI in coming weeks.
<addison> #195
<gb> Action 195 contact WCAG about meeting at TPAC about language-related guidelines (on aphillips) due 2025-11-13
<addison> close #195
<gb> Closed issue #195
<addison> #194
<gb> Action 194 write back in support of adding ruby-base support in WCAG (on jsahleen) due 2025-11-13
<jsahleen> close #194
<gb> Closed issue #194
jsahleen: About other action items: we did a couple, can close them
<addison> #193
<gb> Action 193 send relevant emails requesting tpac stuff to member (on aphillips) due 2025-11-13
<addison> close #193
<gb> Closed issue #193
<addison> #189
<gb> Action 189 follow up with shane carr about ecma repo automation (on aphillips) due 2025-10-23
<jsahleen> #187
<gb> Action 187 ping GOOG again for participation (on aphillips) due 2025-10-16
<jsahleen> #185
<gb> Action 185 follow up with PLH on automating TC39 repos (on aphillips) due 2025-10-02
<jsahleen> #136
<gb> Issue 136 follow up on XML errata (by aphillips) [task]
<jsahleen> #135
<gb> Action 135 follow up on XR issue 1393 about locale in session (on aphillips) due 2024-10-17
<addison> #33
<gb> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips)
<jsahleen> #7
<gb> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023
<jsahleen> #4
<gb> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips) due 27 Jul 2023
Info Share
jsahleen: Who has info to share?
Nobody has.
Review RADAR Review
<jsahleen> https://
jsahleen: It looks like there is no new request. There are two in review.
<jsahleen> w3c/
xfq: Web Sustainability Guidelines we discussed at TPAC. Can move to Awaiting.
<gb> Issue 170 UX Review: 2.18 Web typography must be highly optimized and appropriate (by ehorrell) [taskforce-ux]
jsahleen: Question to do with font subsetting. ^^
addison: Deep and exciting topic...
… Looking at the issue, it doesn't have one of our labels. Might want to add tracker label, so we get notified.
jsahleen: I seem unable to add the label.
xfq: I can do it.
jsahleen: We're only asked about the last comment, about characters used for user input and system fonts.
addison: We may need to read this first and agenda+ it for the future.
r12a: Add it to the agenda as task for everybody or make it an action.
ACTION: jsahleen: Remind everyone to read w3c/
<gb> Created action #198
Pending Issues Review
r12a: I'll assign it to everryone in the group.
addison: I filed an issue on Sustainability Guidelines. Do you want to move to Awaiting comment resolution?
jsahleen: Anything else on Radar review?
Pending Issues Review
<jsahleen> https://
<jsahleen> w3c/
<gb> Issue 2048 `:lang(lzh)` elements in non-traditional-Chinese CJK elements should not switch font to Traditional Chinese one (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker] [i:fonts] [i:inline_notes] [spec-type-issue] [jlreq] [clreq]
addison: lzh is a language tag for literary Chinese. The request is that font fallbacks should not go to Traditional Chinese.
<jsahleen> w3c/
<gb> Issue 13050 `:lang(lzh)` elements in non-traditional-Chinese CJK elements should not switch font to Traditional Chinese one (by tats-u) [css-fonts-4] [i18n-tracker] [i18n-clreq]
addison: Interesting proposal that lzh works differently.
r12a: I wondered if you couldn't do this with CSS. Assign the ruby to a Chinese font.
xfq: The problem is that it is falling back to Traditional Chinese fonts and shouldn't. It should use Japanese fonts.
… Not sure it is CSS. Seems implementation-defined.
addison: I think r12a's suggestion is plausible, you could use CSS with :lang()
jsahleen: What should we do? Correspond with the issue author?
addison: It's tracked.
xfq: Agree with r12a. Specifying the font is more reliable.
jsahleen: Do you want an action to respond?
xfq: I'll just do it.
<jsahleen> w3c/
<gb> Issue 2040 Missing internationalization/localizability from benefits (by aphillips) [pending] [needs-resolution] [t:loc_localization] [s:web-sustainability-guidelines] [ig:sustainableweb]
<jsahleen> w3c/
<gb> Issue 2047 Native Footnote/Endnote Element in HTML (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker] [s:html]
xfq: This was proposed by Chinese Layout task force
… There is no semantic element in HTML for footnotes and endnotes.
… THis causes a few problems.
xfq: Was not discussed during TPAC.
addison: Maybe look at what ePub does.
xfq: They don't have a native solution either.
… They use classes.
<jsahleen> w3c/
TPAC debrief
addison: Next week is Thanksgiving in the US. Should we meet?
Bert: No opionion
xfq: Either is fine.
jsahleen: TPAC debrief. I wasn't there myself? Anybody wants to report?
xfq: Hallway conversation about HTML ruby extension.
… Did not discuss that during our meeting.
… HTML WG is out of charter and cannot publish.
… They should be rechartered, but unknown when.
… Philippe suggest to move it to the i18n group.
… As we have a very old ruby spec, so is in scope.
jsahleen: Should we go to that agenda item?
r12a: I went to a CSS session at TPAC.
… They were talking about automatically filling a box with text.
… If you have a couple of lines and they don't fill the width, rather then justifying, you can increase the font size.
… Can look good on something like a Wanted poster.
… It is something they do a lot in Arabic, stretch the text. But we've always considered that as part of justification.
… So this is just a heads up.
jsahleen: iOS does this in some cases.
r12a: It always takes up more vertical space.
s.also/also/
HTML Ruby Markup Extensions
<Bert> s|s.always/also/|
xfq: According to Florian we don't need to recharter to work on the ruby spec. It's a successor of our old spec.
… But I think it doesn't supersede the old spec, which also has other things.
r12a: I think we only want to make editorial chnages and would need to recharter to make substantive changes.
addison: Similarly we own the charmod Rec.
… Does WHATWG want to do riuby extensions? Are we the right home for it?
xfq: It seems WHATWG doesn't want to.
… We also have the DOM localization message resources to work on.
r12a: Is that a Note?
xfq: No, that would be normative.
r12a: I thought we were going to write requirements.
xfq: Several parts of the work. First part is the format. Second part is integartionj in HTML, which is for the WHATWG.
<xfq> https://
addison: If we are going to write requirements, that wil be a Note.
jsahleen: What do we want to say to Florian?
addison: We publish pseudo-normative documents as Notes. We could publish ruby extensions like that. Although I think it should be normative.
… Do a new charter next year.
r12a: Or this year.
xfq: Or _start_ this year.
jsahleen: That doesn't seem to solve Florian's problem. He wants to publish the spec earlier.
… So somebody should write to him.
r12a: He's not on this call and our next call is only in two weeks.
addison: Not many calls left this year.
addison: As Fuqiao said, chartering takes time.
… And I'd like more than a week to review a spec.
xfq: We can do both: contact Florian offline and invite him to our next telcon.
jsahleen: Who contacts him? Addison? Somebody who taked to him at TPAC?
ACTION: addison: contact florian about ruby extension spec status and invite to next telecon
<gb> Created action #199
jsahleen: UTW can be postponed. How about DAPT?
DAPT
xfq: I'll ask Nigel. But it is probably quick:
… They changed from ‘und' to empty string.
… Can probably close this.
… We preferred empty in our previous discussions.
addison: If they close their isseu, we'll close ours, and they can publish.