Meeting minutes
No meeting next week because of TPAC
Publication planning
Matt_King four PR's in the milestone for publication. none are technically ready yet
Matt_King: we will not publish tomorrow, but SkipTo PR is close
Matt_King: reviews pending from Adam_Page and arigilmore for PR 3213
the link checker is failing, but not sure why
jongund might need to do a merge to fix it. Didn't touch those files
howard any idea why this is failing?
jongund can try submitting again to see if it will resolve
@howard a rerun should work
jongund maybe the link I am using just has a hashtag and I need to update it
jongund does the link checker check if a link is just a hashtag?
<Siri> can you add link to the PR?
Matt_King does the skipTo script end up creating a link with just a hash on the actual rendered page
jongund yes if you are in IOS or android
jongund reran it and the link checker passed
jongund talkback and VO would be able to activate the link off the page and using javascript I can open it
jongund this only happens in the popup mode
jongund for some reason it does see the link, but it just won't activate normally when off screen
Matt_King just looking for the pending reviews. This will be 1 of the 4 pending for publication
Matt_King will change to later date for publication, but not sure when
jongund would be nice to check on android too
jongund will find someone else with another android advice
Siri has a pixel and can test the SkipTo feature
jongund turn on talkback with chrome and use swiping and see if you can double tap to open it and make sure you can activate the menu's
jongund I did notice a big difference between android and IOS. Android with a keyboard willl let you use cursor keys
Matt_King the arrow keys correct ?
jongund yes
Matt_King on IOS you can only use tab keys
Issue 3193: listbox example with aria-actions
<Matt_King> github: w3c/
Matt_King didn't see any commits yet. how's it going?
CurtBellew waiting for something, but can't remember haha
Matt_King: need to summarize the changes
Matt_King: in ARIA we had a separate meeting
CurtBellew has a list of things to implement. Wants to use aria-live when going up and down. Add favorited or starred to the actual name of the option
CurtBellew how will the buttons get read out
Matt_King this is a browser bug
Matt_King concrete changes are changing the name when the item is marked as a favorite and announcing when the item is moved up or down
Matt_King: you can model from listbox from rearrangable options, which has move up and move down
Matt_King: aria-live is included in that example which has strings that we previously discussed with the exact announcement we wanted
jongund: one more thing with the left right keyboard interaction
Matt_King: during TPAC we will take a look at aria-actions. We will use the PR preview for the meeting
Siri: question: these interactions are only on hover or focus?
how does the user know if they never use it?
Matt_King: this is a discovery thing just like gmail
Matt_King: normally if you are gonna interact with the list then you will eventually see these interactions
Matt_King: the goal here is to help people show how aria actions can help them
CurtBellew thinks he will have time before TPAC
Issue 3377: Spin button pattern home and end guidance
<Matt_King> GITHUB: w3c/
Matt_King: there is something about the spinbutton pattern that turns out to be problematic, but we only discovered when writing screen reader tests in the ARIA AT screen reader group
Matt_King: in the spinbutton pattern is that Home should set the value to Min Value and End should set the value to Max value
Matt_King: however if you can type into the box then home/end have specific interactions
Matt_King: support standard editing keys for single line input and i've listed the four lines that discuss this
Matt_King: the last note states we should not have any javascript editing the values
Matt_King: historically we thought of this as a slider, but sliders are not capable of typing a value
jongund to me it seems like the home/end key should change the number rather than the cursor, but one has to win right?
Matt_King screenreaders are expecting home to do what it normally does with those keys
Matt_King lets say the spinbutton was a large value with incorrect value you could arrow left, but home should do that for you to go back to the beginnning
jongund: we should adopt patterns consistent with how screenreaders use the keys. We will have to wait along time before those get updates
jongund: honoring the path of least resistence then we should go with that
Matt_King i don't think screenreaders will agree to change the home/end in cusotm spin button because then they will have to have different behaviour in custom spin button vs standard html with input type=number
Matt_King browsers don't provide any special home/end behaviour
the home/end move the cursor to the beginning of the input
Siri but here you are saying when you click home then it will change to the min value and not bring it to the beginning of the input
Siri it is changing context without informing me
Matt_King: we should remove that home/end guidance
Matt_King: the people spinner you will have to page up and down to hit the max/min values
Matt_King: in a spinner that takes a long range of values then you can just type the min value
Matt_King would anyone be opposed to removing the home/end guidance
jongund: thinks its fine. The most logical thing to do
<Siri> +1
jongund depend on the range there should be some guidance on page up and down
jongund maybe page up and down should move to a certain percentage of increments. then eventually go to max/min values
jongund if the range is 0 to 10 then page up/down should go to 0/10 and then if it's like 100000 then we should increment by percentages
Matt_King page up/down should move at least 10 steps in each direction if the spinner has a very large range then maybe try dividing by 20?
Siri thinking from user perspective. How will end user know what will page up/down will bring them to. Can we assign a key for min/max
Matt_King you can type in the min/max. That's how they are different from sliders
Matt_King: i think i have enough information to at least unblock the ARIA AT project and propose changes to the existing spin button
Matt_King: that will effect how we change page up/down. We should test this in ARIA AT and will need to update after the spinner changes
Issue 3373: "Read this first" uses client-side JavaScript
<Matt_King> GITHUB: w3c/
Matt_King the "read this first" content on the top of each pattern page and other pages and it's being done by client-side javascript. This should not be done by the client side anymore
Matt_King: we want the content fully controlled not in the build repository
Matt_King we should control what the content is and where it goes in the repository and the rest is in the build
Matt_King we already have a template, but i also noticed that when I do a local preview of the example pages the content shows in local preview. That one is being done in a way that the w3c team is happy with, so how is it happening if it's not client side javascript
howard: the javascipt file that's there for it to render locally it does reconstruct the html and build it on the page
Matt_King what's the difference between the read this first and the usage warning?
Matt_King: see's the usage warning locally in the example file
Howard: not for me...
Matt_King: is in his local then goes to content then patterns, accordion, examples in a windows. I have skipTo, related links, design pattern, heading H1. in vscode it shows it but not in windows directly
Matt_King should we do the read this first the same way as usage warning
Howard: yes, but there is another comment asking if we are comfortable with contributors viewing this
Matt_King we should do it the same way
howard: what controls what page it gets used on on for the usage warning
Howard it's probably being done through App.js
Howard: App.js is on all the pages
checks for a certain path
Matt_King can we have a separate file
Howard: yes