Meeting minutes
AvneeshSingh: do we know when we'll be able to release the UX guidelines refactoring with placeholders?
Charles: I'm checking the part I've updated
mgarrish: I've also implemented it in the metadata viewer
gpellegrino: I'll check the sync of the strings from the guidelines to the techniques
Hazard examples repeat info in a summary: Issue #748
AvneeshSingh: Charles has already fixed it
<AvneeshSingh> w3c/
Charles: right!
Structural navigation doesn't match schema.org definition: Issue #746
<AvneeshSingh> w3c/
<AvneeshSingh> fixed and closed
mgarrish: this has been fixed as well
George: this is about the guidelines on how to create accessible metadata, isn't it?
mgarrish: right, it's becoming the reference point for how to create accessibility metadata for ebook
… we have to think if we want to add something about conformance
… because we have it in the spec
… EPUB Accessibility 1.1 spec
<Laura> Being new to this group, I'm not sure where the information that everyone is talking about needing review is. But I definitely think it's important to make sure that any explanations of metadata are actually clear and complete, having spent a lot of time attempting to understand what the different options are or what cases they apply to and finding
<Laura> the information confusing or missing vital information (especially in ONIX).
Charles: this whole document is non-normative, it's just guidance
George: is it a one-stop document with all information about accessibility metadata?
Charles: right, it should be a really useful tool for a lot of publishers
George: how long will it take to finish it?
Charles: technically it's finished, we need feedback from the community
George: maybe we can ask someone from BISG to check it
<Laura> I would very much like to read whatever this is, again, having spent a lot of time trying to understand what all the current documentation means and having to explain somethings to several people again and again because it is not intuitive (such as accessModeSufficient, which is deeply unintuitive).
AvneeshSingh: Q1 2026 looks a good time to publish it
Joint meeting of PMWG and APA on Thursday, October 30, at 13 UTC.
AvneeshSingh: this is really about PMWG, but the meeting is next week, we need to run
… APA sent us an agenda about topics they want to discuss
… what is missing is what PMWG want to discuss
… at the moment I think the only item in the agenda is the Use Case document for Extended Descriptions
George: do we want to send the link to the document in advance?
AvneeshSingh: Yes, we're waiting for the last feedback
<AvneeshSingh> Extended description use cases: https://
George: for me it's ready to go
George: are we suggesting a DPUB ARIA role or a generic ARIA role?
mgarrish: I think we can discuss with them
<Laura> I don't see why it wouldn't be something that could be available to the web as a whole. What would be the "problems" that doing it that way could cause?
AvneeshSingh: there will be more people then APA chairs
… so the discussion will be broader
Charles: there is a broken link
gpellegrino: yes, to a paragraph we removed
… we should remove it
CharlesL: maybe we can add a problem statement at the end, with the open questions
gpellegrino: I'll do it
George: on the web the summary/details solution works well, but still there is not information that it's an extended description
… we should identify it as well
Laura: as a publisher, having the possibility to view extended description in a popup it would be useful
… because with detail/summary field, we have to provide the extended description just below the image
… and sometimes it's confusing, for use we need a way that is flexible in the user experience
… and that the boundaries of the extended description are announced
George: is the container enough? Section or aside?
Laura: not really, screenreader stopped to announce the boundaries of these roles
Hadrien: also for TTS it would be interesting to announce boundaries
AvneeshSingh: do we need to mention something about it in this document?
Laura: yes, I think we should add it
Charles: what if we add it to screen-reader users?
… adding a bullet point
… another thing: maybe we should stress the fact that we have publishers asking for these roles
George: I'm concerned about web people, that do not want to let people go out the webpage in a separate one
Laura: right, that's why we need flexibility
mgarrish: I think we should be clear that we are not asking browsers to implement special UI/UX
… but having the role can help in special UI/UX in EPUB reading systems
AvneeshSingh: that's right, even for screen reader it's DAISY who advocated for DPUB ARIA roles
George: why not using aria-details?
gpellegrino: reading system developer said having a declarative way it's much simpler to manage
Hadrien: right, the more the semantic is declarative, the better it's for us
… it's true that we don't control screen readers, but we control TTS
AvneeshSingh: maybe we can change the heading from screen reader users, to text-to-speec
mgarrish: yes, maybe we can say that this is an EPUB need
AvneeshSingh: gregorio is going to update it
<Chris> https://
Chris: AOB, the PDF Association has published a way to embed custom metadata in PDFs, like ONIX
… for describing accessibility
gpellegrino: I think we should update the principles document
… for guiding implementers in use ONIX for PDFs