W3C

– DRAFT –
PEWG

08 October 2025

Attendees

Present
flackr, gastonr, mustaq, Patrick_H_Lauke, smaug
Regrets
-
Chair
Patrick H. Lauke
Scribe
Patrick_H_Lauke, Patrick H. Lauke

Meeting minutes

<smaug> just a sec

<flackr> Looking to get resolutions on issues like w3c/uievents#141 and w3c/pointerevents#553

Rob: at last TPAC we discussed moving mouse events under aegis of Pointer Events...but nothing has happened

Mustaq: we agreed on that...

Rob: but beyond agreement in principle, nothing's been done. I want to get these issues resolved

Olli: I think Gary did land some changes...but not sure how to progress further

Patrick: do we want to contact Gary ?

Olli: Gary and Travis still listed at editors, but neither of them work for their respective employers...

Rob: in my ideal world, we just move everything related to mouse event dispatch, common ancestors, etc in UI events over to PE

Rob: so many algorithms that are tightly coupled...

Patrick: wondering if Philippe might have an idea, as effectively UI events is an orphaned spec...

Mustaq: should we try and move the sections we want into ours, keeping section heads, to try and make references work?

Mustaq: doing the move AND changing the algo will be a lot of work...

Olli: wondering if just moving things would be useful, as they're lacking the actual algorithmic stuff

Rob: i think there's value in moving mouse and wheel events, even as is, into PE. it then allows us to start introducing/adding those algorithms in PE without the location being confusing

Mustaq: we can start, as Rob said, we can move things from UI events to PE as is; or we can work on algos and move things as we go / when each is ready

<smaug> https://w3c.github.io/uievents/#handle-native-mouse-down-id

Olli: UI events has SOME algorithmic things ... that were added at some point ...

<smaug> https://w3c.github.io/uievents/#send-click-event-id

<mustaq> https://w3c.github.io/uievents/#handle-native-mouse-move-id

Mustaq: my understanding is that they are still very incomplete

Patrick: maybe the best way forward might be to make a separate branch on PE that we can use to prototype "what would PE with mouse/wheel stuff transplanted from UI events + some algo stuff look like". then in parallel we can have conversations (with Philippe/others?) about how to take this forward - we don't want to wholesale adopt UI events spec, but it should be edited as otherwise there will be confusing bits that are[CUT]

and THAT old spec

Olli: other things like focus event that should be in HTML as that's already covered more there...

<mustaq> Is moving out "auxclick", etc is easy?

<mustaq> https://w3c.github.io/uievents/#event-type-auxclick

ACTION: Patrick to create new branch for prototype PE+UI events bits. check with Philippe what we can do about taking over those bits from orphaned UI events (at TPAC?). check if branches get previews (if not ask Ken)

Patrick: wondering out loud if this would also need to be reflected in our charter, to say that we will cover mouse+wheel etc. Need to check with PLH as well

Patrick: quick note about recharters ... been checking with PLH about where to actually make PR about potential new charter. I'm aware officially our charter runs out 7 Nov, but worst case we get extension and then recharter

Web Platform Tests https://wpt.live/pointerevents/ / https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents?label=experimental&label=master&aligned

Patrick: just a heartbeat to check if we're blocked on anything, anything missing?

Olli: there are some tests that fail in all browsers (not just "Harness TIMEOUT" / "Harness ERROR") ... what do we do about those? do we need to investigate?

Patrick: in ideal world, we'd have all green. but reality is usually not that great. but we should investigate the ones that fail on all platforms AND don't have a clear warning triangle or bug against it

Mustaq: as immediate action we can open a ticket on our end that lists the ones to investigate, and we work through them

Olli: there's then also the optional ones...

Mustaq: so for first step just looking at the ones that fail on all platforms, and aren't optional, and don't have a clear reason for failure (e.g. harness)

Olli: then perhaps move on to the ones that only work in one platform

ACTION: Mustaq to make a ticket to list problematic tests with the proper filter

gaston: feel free to reach out to me as well to help with this

Mustaq: related to WPT. Olli did Firefox make an interop submission for PE?

Olli: think we did the same as last time for mobile ... but we'd need something new in the testing framework

Olli: think proposal was specifically about touch, not pan

Mustaq: would be good again at this TPAC to see what's happening (e.g. webdriver support for touch)

<smaug> mustaq: web-platform-tests/interop#1123

Patrick: Any other issues that cropped up that are important/interesting, anything you need help with at this stage?

[no issues brought up by group]

Patrick: excellent, in that case thank you all as ever, we'll reconvene in two weeks' time

Summary of action items

  1. Patrick to create new branch for prototype PE+UI events bits. check with Philippe what we can do about taking over those bits from orphaned UI events (at TPAC?). check if branches get previews (if not ask Ken)
  2. Mustaq to make a ticket to list problematic tests with the proper filter
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 246 (Wed Oct 1 15:02:24 2025 UTC).

Diagnostics

Maybe present: gaston, Olli, Patrick, Rob

All speakers: gaston, Mustaq, Olli, Patrick, Rob

Active on IRC: flackr, mustaq, Patrick_H_Lauke, smaug