14:48:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pointerevents
14:48:39 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/10/08-pointerevents-irc
14:48:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Meeting: PEWG
14:48:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
14:48:54 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
14:49:00 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ScribeNick: Patrick_H_Lauke
14:49:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/66591f6b-6694-4f90-b23d-bf8f1b9dda8a/20251008T110000/
14:49:32 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+
15:00:58 <smaug> just a sec
15:01:17 <flackr> flackr has joined #pointerevents
15:03:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ gastonr
15:03:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ flackr
15:03:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ smaug
15:03:21 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ mustaq
15:04:36 <flackr> Looking to get resolutions on issues like https://github.com/w3c/uievents/issues/141 and https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/553
15:05:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: at last TPAC we discussed moving mouse events under aegis of Pointer Events...but nothing has happened
15:05:34 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: we agreed on that...
15:05:56 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: but beyond agreement in principle, nothing's been done. I want to get these issues resolved
15:06:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: I think Gary did land some changes...but not sure how to progress further
15:07:16 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: do we want to contact Gary ?
15:07:44 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: Gary and Travis still listed at editors, but neither of them work for their respective employers...
15:08:09 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: in my ideal world, we just move everything related to mouse event dispatch, common ancestors, etc in UI events over to PE
15:08:21 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: so many algorithms that are tightly coupled...
15:09:22 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: wondering if Philippe might have an idea, as effectively UI events is an orphaned spec...
15:09:53 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: should we try and move the sections we want into ours, keeping section heads, to try and make references work?
15:10:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: doing the move AND changing the algo will be a lot of work...
15:10:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: wondering if just moving things would be useful, as they're lacking the actual algorithmic stuff
15:11:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: i think there's value in moving mouse and wheel events, even as is, into PE. it then allows us to start introducing/adding those algorithms in PE without the location being confusing
15:12:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: we can start, as Rob said, we can move things from UI events to PE as is; or we can work on algos and move things as we go / when each is ready
15:12:43 <smaug> https://w3c.github.io/uievents/#handle-native-mouse-down-id
15:13:01 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: UI events has SOME algorithmic things ... that were added at some point ...
15:13:13 <smaug> https://w3c.github.io/uievents/#send-click-event-id
15:13:13 <mustaq> https://w3c.github.io/uievents/#handle-native-mouse-move-id
15:13:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: my understanding is that they are still very incomplete
15:17:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: maybe the best way forward might be to make a separate branch on PE that we can use to prototype "what would PE with mouse/wheel stuff transplanted from UI events + some algo stuff look like". then in parallel we can have conversations (with Philippe/others?) about how to take this forward - we don't want to wholesale adopt UI events spec, but it should be edited as otherwise there will be confusing bits that are[CUT]
15:17:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> and THAT old spec
15:18:01 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: other things like focus event that should be in HTML as that's already covered more there...
15:18:18 <mustaq> Is moving out "auxclick", etc is easy?
15:18:18 <mustaq> https://w3c.github.io/uievents/#event-type-auxclick
15:21:37 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Patrick to create new branch for prototype PE+UI events bits. check with Philippe what we can do about taking over those bits from orphaned UI events (at TPAC?). check if branches get previews (if not ask Ken)
15:23:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: wondering out loud if this would also need to be reflected in our charter, to say that we will cover mouse+wheel etc. Need to check with PLH as well
15:25:34 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: quick note about recharters ... been checking with PLH about where to actually make PR about potential new charter. I'm aware officially our charter runs out 7 Nov, but worst case we get extension and then recharter
15:26:00 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Web Platform Tests https://wpt.live/pointerevents/ / https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents?label=experimental&label=master&aligned
15:26:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: just a heartbeat to check if we're blocked on anything, anything missing?
15:31:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: there are some tests that fail in all browsers (not just "Harness TIMEOUT" / "Harness ERROR") ... what do we do about those? do we need to investigate?
15:34:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: in ideal world, we'd have all green. but reality is usually not that great. but we should investigate the ones that fail on all platforms AND don't have a clear warning triangle or bug against it
15:35:14 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: as immediate action we can open a ticket on our end that lists the ones to investigate, and we work through them
15:35:35 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: there's then also the optional ones...
15:36:02 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: so for first step just looking at the ones that fail on all platforms, and aren't optional, and don't have a clear reason for failure (e.g. harness)
15:36:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: then perhaps move on to the ones that only work in one platform
15:37:44 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Mustaq to make a ticket to list problematic tests with the proper filter
15:37:54 <Patrick_H_Lauke> gaston: feel free to reach out to me as well to help with this
15:38:24 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: related to WPT. Olli did Firefox make an interop submission for PE?
15:38:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: think we did the same as last time for mobile ... but we'd need something new in the testing framework
15:39:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: think proposal was specifically about touch, not pan
15:39:36 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: would be good again at this TPAC to see what's happening (e.g. webdriver support for touch)
15:40:12 <smaug> mustaq: https://github.com/web-platform-tests/interop/issues/1123
15:42:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: Any other issues that cropped up that are important/interesting, anything you need help with at this stage?
15:42:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [no issues brought up by group]
15:43:01 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: excellent, in that case thank you all as ever, we'll reconvene in two weeks' time
15:43:12 <Patrick_H_Lauke> RRSAgent, make logs world-visible
15:43:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> RRSAgent, generate minutes
15:43:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/08-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
15:45:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> RRSAgent, bye
15:45:06 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2025/10/08-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
15:45:06 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Patrick to create new branch for prototype PE+UI events bits. check with Philippe what we can do about taking over those bits from orphaned UI events (at TPAC?). check if branches get previews (if not ask Ken) [1]
15:45:06 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/10/08-pointerevents-irc#T15-21-37
15:45:06 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mustaq to make a ticket to list problematic tests with the proper filter [2]
15:45:06 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/10/08-pointerevents-irc#T15-37-44