W3C

RDF-Star WG meeting

25 September 2025

Attendees

Present
AndyS, draggett, Enrico, fsasaki, gtw, ktk, lisp, niklasl, olaf, ora, pchampin, pfps, rubensworks, Souri, TallTed, william-vw
Regrets
AZ, tl
Chair
ora
Scribe
fsasaki

Meeting minutes

Approval of last week’s minutes: 1

ora: thanks for everybody having the meeting last week.
… minutes are ok?

<ora> PROPOSAL: Approve last week's minutes.

<olaf> +1

<ktk> +0

<Enrico> +1

<ora> +0 (not there)

<pchampin> +1

<fsasaki> +1

<lisp> +1

<niklasl> +1

<AndyS> +1

<william-vw> +0 (also not there)

<rubensworks> +0

<gtw> +1

RESOLUTION: Approve last week's minutes.

RDF Test Suite Curation Community Group Chair 2

pa: rdf test suite curation community group has no chair, gregg was the only chair
… currently the test suites are created by the WG = same people as CG
… not urgent, but want the CG to take over once the WG is done
… so we need a chair for the CG. If you are interested or know others, let us know

adrian: how do volunteer process wise?

pa: anybody can self nominate AFAIK
… but anyway, would be good to have somebody to take over once the WG is done

Identifying issues to solve before CR 3

ora: topics for today: where are we WRT wording of how reifiers are explained.

adrian: we want to move to horizontal review. Closing the PRs would help for that (even if it is not absolutely required)

ora: niklas is right, we may also just close some PRs

ora: RDF concept PR 237 is ready to merge

andy: is ready to go. There is a lot of discussion on the PR which is not about the PR
… more like an issue.
… there is material in the discussion of the PR, but we cannot keep PRs open because of long running discussions

adrian: we said previously: we merge, and then a new issue can be created. the discussion of the PR is still available.

<niklasl> +1 to merge, if the discussion entails another issue that can be raised separately.

andy: one can put a summary in of long discussion to make follow ups as issues easier.

<fsasaki> +1 to niklasl

ora: can we merge PR 237 of concepts?

pfps: we do not all people involved in the PR related discussion in today's call

<pchampin> +1 pfps, the remaining discussion on 237 is not related to the PR, it is more general

pfps: my proposal: I will merge the PR and say: we can discuss things separately as needed

w3c/rdf-concepts#220

andy: 220 PR on concepts
… was created in july and no update to the PR since then to reflect the conversation

ora: suggest to close i?

andy: yes
… since we do not move towards consensus

ora: ok, we better should have a formal vote on this to which we can point to

<ora> PROPOSAL: Close without merging w3c/rdf-concepts#220

<gb> Pull Request 220 Annotations on assserted triples are based on operational semantics (by rat10) [ms:CR]

<Enrico> +1

<ora> +1

<niklasl> +1

<fsasaki> +1

<rubensworks> +0

<pfps> +1

<AndyS> +1

<lisp> +0

<niklasl> Yes, *close* without merging

<olaf> +1

<pchampin> +1

<ktk> +1

<william-vw> +0

<ktk> TallTed reports +1 on Zoom

RESOLUTION: Close without merging w3c/rdf-concepts#220

<gb> Pull Request 220 Annotations on asserted triples are based on operational semantics (by rat10) [ms:CR]

<pchampin> s/+1 on IRC/+1 on Zoom

andy: I will do that after the call

w3c/rdf-star-wg#169

<ora> PROPOSAL: Close issue #169

<gb> Issue 169 definition of reifiers is non-normative and seems vague (by rat10) [ms:CR]

<pfps> +1

<Enrico> +1

<ora> +1

<ktk> +1

<niklasl> +1

<lisp> +0

<fsasaki> +1

<pchampin> +1

<AndyS> +1

<william-vw> +0

<olaf> +1

<rubensworks> +0

<TallTed> +1

RESOLUTION: Close issue #169

<gb> Issue 169 definition of reifiers is non-normative and seems vague (by rat10) [ms:CR]

w3c/rdf-concepts#79

pa: on rdf-concepts still
… two issues in concepts marked as relevant for CR
… rdf concepts 79
… not blocking, we need to respond to submitter
… but we will not change that

ora: so we remove the ms:CR tag and someone will respond?

pa: yes, and I will make a response

w3c/rdf-concepts#119

pa: the other issue in concepts: there is a misplaced issue
… it is an issue on RDF schema, will not block rdf concepts from going to CR

<niklasl> 1+

<niklasl> w3c/rdf-concepts#119

<gb> Issue 119 Updated RDFS vocabularies for RDF 1.2 (by marcelotto) [ms:CR] [propose closing] [spec:editorial]

<AndyS> w3c/rdf-schema#64

<gb> Pull Request 64 Add canonical Turtle for RDF-recognized XSD datatypes (`ns/rdf-xsd.ttl`) (by domel)

pfps: trying to resolve that, so may be a different one

pa: agree

andy: suggest to add the link and close the issue

<niklasl> Also w3c/rdf-schema#61

<gb> Issue 61 Ensure text about propositions and reifies is aligned with RDF Concepts (by niklasl)

pfps: will add a link to the related pull request in schema and then close the issue on concepts
… schema 64 and schema 61

enrico: proposal to close things in semantics
… PR from ted, can be merged

<pchampin> w3c/rdf-semantics#102

enrico: three blocking issues : 1) related to interpolation lemma, being checked by Doerthe and pfps
… proof will not be published anyway

<ktk> Proof: w3c/rdf-semantics#102 (comment)

<gb> -> Issue 102 Check if the interpolation lemma is still true given the new semantics (by franconi) [ms:CR] [spec:enhancement]

enrico: proof is in issue 102

enrico: in RDF 1.0 the proof was there, in RDF 1.1. it disappeared
… next issue, blocking: about appendix A: are the rules complete or not?

<pchampin> I for one would prefer to include the proof (or at least a proof sketch) in the spec (non normatively)

enrico: I say: do not change anything
… and this is not relevant in practice
… completeness of algorithm does not have practical relevance
… suggest to keep text in appendix A as is and close the issue
… third point about appendix B
… theoretical informal appendix
… hard to follow, mostly correct
… not sure why that appendix exists, it is not useful for any reader
… proposal: delete apendix b

<Zakim> pfps, you wanted to say that I'm happy removing the finite model appendix (but add a change note)

enrico: these are my three proposals

pfps: happy to have appendix B removed, we just need to put a related note

ted: suggest to have time to check things until next week

ora: happy to give people a week
… but it should not delay the timing of the horizontal review

ted: agree, horizontal review can go out

<niklasl> see https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf12-semantics/#dfn-pre-interpretation

niklasl: would above definition be problematic if removed?

<niklasl> This will remain https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-mt/#dfn-pre-interpretation

<pfps> I can't imagine where it would be used.

niklasl: no objections from me

ora: if we remove these, do we remove them or make them into separate notes

pfps: appendix will still be in RDF 1.1.
… change note in RDF 1.2 helps to trace the change

niklasl: doerthe may have a thought on that, not on the call

pa: vote during a meeting is open for a week so that people not on the call can add their opinion

ora: let us vote next week
… we can hear from Doerthe inbetween
… still we get going with horizontal review

<Enrico> w3c/rdf-semantics#159

<gb> Pull Request 159 fixing #158 (by TallTed)

enrico: to Ted, can I merge the above PR?

enrico: graphs have not interchangable models but can be interchanged in these models
… a formal thing

ted: will take a look again
… and then get back to enrico

pfps: status of IRI issues?

andy: little progress because of time
… but nothing blocking going to review

<pchampin> +1 this is blocking CR, but not Horizontal Review

ora: anything else before we start horizontal and TAG review?

andy: need to start TAG review

pa: before we publish spec as CR we need to get feedback at large beyond the group
… horizontal groups in W3C are included: access, i18n, security, privacy, and TAG
… TAG ensures that we do not break the web architecture with the new spec

ora: that is why we should start soon

andy: is it 8 weeks review time?

pa: 8 weeks sounds OK, there is no clear time defined in the process
… the groups have to do a lot of reviews, so it will take some time

ora: so we start the horizontal review and trigger other discussions
… once these are done we go for really wide review

adrian: do we need to vote?

<ora> PROPOSAL: Start horizontal reviews (including TAG)

ora: it is chairs discretion but we can vote

<fsasaki> +1

<william-vw> +1

<ktk> +1

<ora> +1

<olaf> +1

<AndyS> +1

<lisp> +0

<niklasl> +1

<Souri> +1

<gtw> +1

<rubensworks> +1

pa: need to identify for which specy

ora: concepts, semantics, n-triples go to horizontal review

<ora> PROPOSAL: Start horizontal reviews (including TAG) for Concepts, Semantics, Ntriples

<pchampin> +1

<olaf> +1

<fsasaki> +1

<niklasl> +1

<Souri> +1

<rubensworks> +1

<ora> +1

<ktk> +1

<AndyS> +1

<william-vw> +1

<lisp> +0

<TallTed> +1

RESOLUTION: Start horizontal reviews (including TAG) for Concepts, Semantics, Ntriples

ora: chairs will take this up
… thanks a lot, we made a lot of progress today!
… regrets next week for me

Summary of resolutions

  1. Approve last week's minutes.
  2. Close without merging w3c/rdf-concepts#220
  3. Close issue #169
  4. Start horizontal reviews (including TAG) for Concepts, Semantics, Ntriples
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 246 (Wed Oct 1 15:02:24 2025 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: i|220 PR on concepts|subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/pull/220

Succeeded: s/Delete/Close/

Succeeded: s/IRC/zoom/

Failed: s/+1 on IRC/+1 on Zoom

Succeeded: i|PROPOSAL:|subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/169

Succeeded: i|on rdf-concepts|subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/79

Succeeded: i|the other issue|subtopic: https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/8?pane=issue&itemId=89652156&issue=w3c%7Crdf-concepts%7C119

Succeeded: s|https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/8?pane=issue&itemId=89652156&issue=w3c%7Crdf-concepts%7C119|https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/119

Succeeded: i|related to interpolation|https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/issues/102

Succeeded: s|https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/issues/102|

Succeeded: s/Tex/Ted/

Succeeded: s/disgression/discretion/

Succeeded: s/separtely/separately/

Succeeded: s/assserted/asserted/

Succeeded: s/zoom/Zoom/

Succeeded: s/creation/curation/

Maybe present: adrian, andy, pa, ted

All speakers: adrian, andy, enrico, niklasl, ora, pa, pfps, ted

Active on IRC: AndyS, draggett, Enrico, fsasaki, gtw, ktk, lisp, niklasl, olaf, ora, pchampin, pfps, rubensworks, Souri, TallTed, william-vw