W3C

RDF & SPARQL WG biweekly meeting

03 July 2025

Attendees

Present
AndyS, gkellogg, james, ktk, niklasl, olaf, ora, pchampin, pfps, Souri, TallTed, tl
Regrets
-
Chair
ora
Scribe
fsasaki

Meeting minutes

Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: 1 , 2

ora: asking for minutes approval

<pfps> minutes look acceptable to me

<ora> PROPOSAL: Approve minutes from 2025-06-19 and 2025-06-26

<ora> +1

<pfps> +1

<pchampin> +1

<fsasaki> +1

<gkellogg> +1

<niklasl> +1

<gtw> +1

<AndyS> +1

<tl> +1

<james> +1

<olaf> +1

<ktk> +1

RESOLUTION: Approve minutes from 2025-06-19 and 2025-06-26

Proposal for next week's discussion

ora: broad review by horizontal groups could be a topic, or should chairs handle this?

pchampin: could discuss in group. We should cover groups listed in charter
… might be good to check who can cover what group.

ora: agree

gregg: we worked with i18n by tagging issues, that shows up for them
… so we can just do the tagging with i18n as label and then follow up with an email to chairs

ora: is it up to us to ask groups what to look at?
… e.g. bidi as a topic for i18n?

gregg: yes, it is worth pointing things out
… but review groups should look into what they want to focus

<Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask if we need formal "its OK" responses from any coords or is silence enough?

pchampin: we need to cover also liaison groups, i.e. outside W3C

andy: do we need formal responses from groups or is time out of response ok?

pchampin: there is no formal time out in the process
… the team decides on the time out
… there is an informal possibility of a time out of groups are not responsive enough
… it just has to be reasonable

andy: is there is a responsibility of groups to send a reply?

pchampin: yes, we need acks even if there is no issue

ora: so we discuss this next weeks and then see who contacts what group

tl: discuss issue-169

<tl> w3c/rdf-star-wg#169

<gb> Issue 169 definition of reifiers is non-normative and seems vague (by rat10) [needs discussion]

tl: i.e. "reifiers should have a better definition" issue

gregg: we still have to discuss the "resolve IRIs" topic
… i.e. do all IRI go through IRI resolution algorithm
… there are tests that make some assumptions
… they need to take the discussion into account

pchampin: want to discuss a certain issue with given time

ora: 15 to 20 minutes suggested

andy: asked in the issue for feedback if WG members want to discuss

pfps: agree with andy about that approach

tl: I raised the issue last time and got some support, not fighting for labels

ora: if you want to discuss things tl let us timebox for 15 min and then discuss

pchampin: I participated in the discussion of the issue
… there is an issue if langstring without a language tag should be introduced by parsers

<gkellogg> w3c/rdf-turtle#37

<gb> Issue 37 language strings missing a language tag (by pchampin) [propose closing] [test:needs tests]

gregg: needs discussion. This will also hit concrete syntaxes.

ora: objections on discussing this? will also be time boxed.

pchampin: will prepare summary of the issue
… will send a mail to the group before the call

ora: at this point, the WG will just check off things of the list
… so we could spend the rest next week in that way

andy: can we put issue-169 on the agenda?

niklas: thinking about editorial topics, e.g. rdf commons repository

ora: do we have a point in which the alternating meetings do not make sense?
… should we dedicate the meetings to checking things of the list?

pfps: semantics doc has parts that depend on definitions, unproductive to change those if first parts change

adrian: in the last weeks we get more admin stuff than real remaining work, I feel
… if that is true, how can we go through the remaining topics?

ora: this is about nailing things down

pfps: yes, and we took a step back on this

andy: semantics should be earlier on our path

pfps: others should talk on that
… doerte and enrico should talk on that

niklas: dominik is doing the schema doc, I can do primer things, that is not related to the semantics doc
… dominik needs to look into the reification topic in relation to semantics then schema doc
… we need to have work meetings editing and merging branches

ora: editors should get together on these docs

gregg: prio should be on first round of CR
… we should focus on open items, pfps mentioned items in schema and primer

gregg: we should now focus on what it takes to work on those
… and do then the work in git, focus our time in the meetings right

adrian: should we still need the larger group, try to close in the call also to close pull requests?

ora: agree

gregg: not each topic is mature enough

adrian: agree

gregg: PRs related to certain docs. Concepts has a number open, requires some focus.

ora: let us put some time on the agenda about this
… this is a good development! We wanted to get here

gregg: looking for gaps in test coverage is important
… many times we do not have a normative statement but still tests are necessary

Review of open actions, available at 3

ora: my action not done yet

niklas: work in progress on the owlification issue

ora: will then take a look

pchampin: 165 is done, 168 is pending

<tl> niklasl i'd be interested to have a look at your owl-ification work

gregg: on 168, great idea from niklas to use build process to have to avoid copying files and use referencing instead
… will do that after we got CR drafts out

niklas: trying out that pattern in my fork

Review of pull requests, available at 4

ora: anything we can merge?

gregg: n-quads and n-triples PRs are close being done
… people request changes, please review ones these are done and comment or approve PR

ora: agree

gregg: sometimes there have been requests for changes, discussion, implementations. If you are asked to look at these, please give it a prio to review and approve if possible.

ora: agree
… how about the minor changes to turtle?

gregg: there have been great suggestions from ted on these
… once we have closure on the docs we move on
… we are close on this

<pfps> sorry, on mute

andy: on rdf concepts, does pchampin need input from me?

pchampin: just more time, will give it high prio

andy: if you need anything let me know

pfps: I have a PR for tests, who should be doing these
… is there an editor for tests

gregg: if you are an editor of a doc, please make a merge of related tests

pfps: works for me

<pchampin> +1

<niklasl> +1

andy: is this about 200?

pfps: 201
… just merged
… will look at 200
… waiting for doerte to get back to me

ora: others that are not tagged, what to do about them?

w3c/rdf-tests#79

gregg: 79 is created by me
… nothing is in manifest that drove the expected behaviour
… depended on running a script that gregg wiliams managed
… not relating to work that needs to be done soon, we should consider if that is the approach we want to do

ora: would be ok to check if people want to merge

andy: agree, worth it for moving things forward

adrian: 193 and 198 seem to be ok, on concepts doc

pchampin: will take care about this by end of week

w3c/rdf-n-quads#78

ora: what about n-quads, no 78

gregg: once ted is ok, we are good to go
… then need to change n-triples, turtle, trig to check if related changes are required
… we need to have people review the doc for such related changes, we are ahead of the process for that

Issue Triage, available at 5

going through proposed closing list

ora: language strings missing topic, already discussed
… will discuss next week

gregg: we can close 161

<pchampin> +1

ora: ok, let us close

w3c/rdf-semantics#126

ora: rdfs 14 entailment topic, how about that?

andy: the document is saying different than what is intended

ora: can it be closed?

ora: not sure what proposed closing means if we do not close issues

pfps: suggesting to close this
… andy seems to agree

ora: ok, let us close that

w3c/rdf-semantics#83

ora: 83 is editorial
… does this depend on bidi topic?

pfps: no. it is teds issue

ora: we discussed that editors should do good judgment and do things

<gb> Issue 83 wording defining "RDF Literals" needs clarification (by TallTed) [propose closing] [spec:editorial]

ted: would like to see input besides me and the editors

ora: will provide some input

ted: please others look at this as well

AOB

ora: anything else?
… like us to get to a point, if something is proposed to close, whose who disagree should speak up

adrian: same for PRs, close after 2 weeks without response

ora: agree
… tomorrow US has public holiday

andy: will cancel sparql task force meeting tomorrow
… want to have editors for next discussion

<pchampin> s| … 83 is editorial|ora: 83 is editorial

Summary of resolutions

  1. Approve minutes from 2025-06-19 and 2025-06-26
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 244 (Thu Feb 27 01:23:09 2025 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/RDF-Star WG/RDF & SPARQL WG/

Succeeded: s/pfps: want to discuss/pchampin: want to discuss

Succeeded: s/editoral/editorial/

Succeeded: s/check of/check off/

Succeeded: i|79 is created by me|subtopic: w3c/rdf-tests#79

Succeeded: i|what about n-quads, no 78|w3c/rdf-n-quads#78

Succeeded: s|w3c/rdf-n-quads#78|subtopic: w3c/rdf-n-quads#78

Succeeded: i|rdfs 14 entailment topic|subtopic: w3c/rdf-semantics#126

Failed: s| … 83 is editorial|ora: 83 is editorial

Succeeded: i|83 is editorial|subtopic: w3c/rdf-semantics#83

Succeeded: i|anything else?|topic: AOB

Maybe present: adrian, andy, gregg, niklas, ted

All speakers: adrian, andy, gregg, niklas, ora, pchampin, pfps, ted, tl

Active on IRC: AndyS, fsasaki, gkellogg, gtw, james, ktk, niklasl, olaf, ora, pchampin, pfps, Souri, TallTed, tl