W3C

– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

03 July 2025

Attendees

Present
Addison, Atsushi, Bert, Fuqiao, JcK, Richard
Regrets
-
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
Bert

Meeting minutes

Agenda Review

Action Items

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen

<addison> #176

<gb> Action 176 add WG comment to html 11395 (on aphillips) due 2025-07-03

<addison> #175

<gb> Action 175 respond to our #2005 (on xfq) due 2025-06-26

xfq: I took a look at the thread. It seems the HTML parser white space parsing cannot be changed without security issues.
… One thing we could do is to include a definition of ASCII white space specifically for HTML.

addison: I think you wrote such definitions already.

xfq: We describe the vertical tab for some specifications.

addison: Historical reasons.

xfq: So maybe there is nothing we can do.

addison: If we wrote HTML today, we might do something different...

addison: Shoudl I respond?

xfq: Yes

<addison> #174

<gb> Action 174 add 'typeface style` to the glossary (on r12a) due 2025-06-19

<addison> #173

<gb> Action 173 ping zainab (on aphillips) due 2025-06-19

<addison> #169

<gb> Action 169 reply to html 10843 and css 9832 (on aphillips) due 2025-05-08

<addison> #162

<gb> Action 162 poll I18N/CSS for new day/time (on aphillips) due 2025-03-25

<addison> #157

<gb> Action 157 write glossary proposal identifying options and next steps for those options (on aphillips) due 2025-02-20

<addison> #135

<gb> Action 135 follow up on XR issue 1393 about locale in session (on aphillips) due 2024-10-17

<addison> #127

<gb> Action 127 make a list of shared topics of interest between TG2 and W3C-I18N (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30

<addison> #33

<gb> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips)

<addison> #7

<gb> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023

<addison> #4

<gb> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips) due 27 Jul 2023

Info Share

RADAR Review

<addison> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1

addison: No incoming requests, nothing in review.

Pending Issue Review

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending

<addison> i18n-activity#2013

<gb> Issue 2013 [css-text] `hanging-punctuation: last` should be "conditionally hang" (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker] [s:css-text]

addison: CSS issue on hanging punctuation ^^

<addison> i18n-activity#2011

<gb> Issue 2011 Define optional normalization of full-width characters in <input type="number"> (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker] [s:html] [spec-type-issue] [jlreq] [clreq] [i:interaction]

addison: Interesting thread ^^ on digits input in <input type=number>.
… We talked a little about it last week.

typeface style definition

<addison> #174

<gb> Action 174 add 'typeface style` to the glossary (on r12a) due 2025-06-19

addison: Defintion of typeface style.
… Richards proposed text not in glossary-style language.
… My rewrite may not work either.

r12a: Your wrote a "this" and I don't know what it refers to.

JcK: What is a "typeface style"? Different from a typeface?

r12a: The definition tries to explain it.

addison: It's a neologism that we are creating.

JcK: confusion with historical terms.

Typographers typically talk about classification, e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox-ATypI_classification

addison: The first sentence of the def doens't really say what a typeface style is.

Pull Requests

r12a: "... common to a number of fonts... styles... " I'll rework it

<addison> w3c/bp-i18n-specdev#162

<gb> Pull Request 162 Modernize 'choosing character encodings' (by aphillips) [Agenda+] [normative]

<addison> https://deploy-preview-162--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#char_choosing

addison: My reworking of choosing character encodings ^^
… thumbs up from Anne van Kesteren.
… John, you sent an email.

<r12a> grappple >> grapple

<addison> https://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-glossary/#dfn-character-encoding

JcK: Old issue of chacter encoding and charset in Unicode. I have no problem, as long as the definition is clear.
… Can be very confusing if you come to this with variuos historical views.

addison: I use character encoding as a shorthand and link the term to the definition.
… I think in modern terms character encoding form is clear.

JcK: Less concerned about character encoding vs character encoding form.

addison: 4.7is about other, non-Unicode encoding forms.

JcK: No problem as long as it comnpletely clear.
… But right now different encoding form in 4.6 and 4.7.

addison: The bottom set of mustard is old and maybe I can clean it up, improve the wording.
… If you allow different character encodings, there should be a label, don't you agree?

JcK: I certainly agree.
… Between Unicode and iso10646, you'll find encoding form used as character set. So conflict with that earlier use.
… Also should put labels on HTTP/1.0 and HTTP/1.1

addison: But those are out of scope for W3C :-)

JcK: It seems you use the same term in two overlapping ways. One is only about Unicode.

xfq: The text improved since the porevious iteration

<addison> w3c/bp-i18n-specdev#163

<gb> Pull Request 163 Mention layout mirroring for bidi (by xfq)

<addison> https://deploy-preview-163--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#typ_bidi

addison: Any objection to publishing it, after I made the improvemenbts?

No objections

<addison> > Specifications defining user interface layouts SHOULD support automatic mirroring for right-to-left languages, ensuring that spatial relationships, navigation patterns, and directional elements are appropriately reversed while preserving semantic meaning.

xfq: The PR is about automatic mirroring for rtl languages, if needed.
… E.g., a switch button should be mirrored.
… Another aspects is "logical properties" exposed to authors, such as in CSS.
… That also applies for vertical text.
… We have a section in specdev about logical properties that is currently empty.

addison: This is a gap to fill in specdev. Thanks for starting!
… I suspect we have to do some thinking, because a good description is complex.
… Probably needs an illustration.
… I pointed to an example from one of my talks,
… in which "forward" means "left".
… And we need to describe what spec auhtors need to do.

JcK: If I have arabic digits and rtl letters, and I want to slope the text, how do I do that?

xfq: Should provide the possibility to slope both left and right.

addison: We may need to reorder the sections to be clearer.

r12a: The first mustard about sloping doesn't belong in this section.

addison: Section 9 typographic support?

xfq: Or font management?

addison: As I said in my issue comment, I think it is not typographic support. More UI. Maybe section 10.

<r12a> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/labels/t%3Atyp_font_management_x

<r12a> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/labels/t%3Atyp_logical_x

r12a: When we have empty sections, it is a good idea to follow the link to the review comments, because there is quite a bit in there.
… Specdev tries to distill the intelligence from people's reviews.

addison: So what should the scope of your work be? UI mirroring?

xfq: Yes this PR is for UI mirroring, as defined by a spec, not the author.
… I'll rework this.

AOB?

<xfq> w3c/i18n-drafts#434

<gb> Pull Request 434 Change RFC 2616 to RFC 9110 (by xfq)

xfq: HTTP Content-Language header: I updated the link to RFC 9111, which I believe is the latest.
… we cannot link to a section of STD97, so I linked to the RFC.

addison: Is that true?

xfq: We can link to std97, but not to a section within it.

<xfq> https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/std97

jck: [section numbers of RFCs]

xfq: Shall I merge this PR?

addison: Unless RFC9110 has been obsoleted already, which I think is not the case.

<xfq> atsushi, feel free to take a look at w3c/i18n-drafts#685 when you have time

<gb> Issue 685 [questions/qa-html-encoding-declarations] Japanese translation of character encoding (by xfq)

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 244 (Thu Feb 27 01:23:09 2025 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/speficially/specifically

Succeeded: i/#174/xfq: Yes

Succeeded: s/nothin/nothing

Succeeded: s/"logical properties"/"logical properties" exposed to authors/

Maybe present: r12a, xfq

All speakers: addison, JcK, r12a, xfq

Active on IRC: addison, Bert, r12a, xfq