13:54:52 RRSAgent has joined #i18n 13:54:56 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/07/03-i18n-irc 13:55:01 Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference 13:55:06 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b7edae68-f52c-4aab-a1a6-3c37459e0786/20250703T150000/ 13:55:06 clear agenda 13:55:06 agenda+ Agenda Review 13:55:06 agenda+ Action Items 13:55:09 agenda+ Info Share 13:55:10 Chair: Addison Phillips 13:55:11 agenda+ RADAR Review 13:55:13 agenda+ Pending Issue Review 13:55:16 agenda+ Pull Requests 13:55:18 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/03-i18n-minutes.html addison 13:55:20 agenda+ AOB? 13:59:02 present+ Addison 13:59:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/03-i18n-minutes.html addison 14:01:10 present+ Fuqiao 14:03:27 present+ Bert 14:05:03 present+ JcK 14:06:01 atsushi has joined #i18n 14:06:37 zakim, take up agendum 1 14:06:37 agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:06:43 scribe+ 14:07:16 zakim, take up agendum 2 14:07:16 agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:07:37 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen 14:07:53 #176 14:07:54 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/176 -> Action 176 add WG comment to html 11395 (on aphillips) due 2025-07-03 14:08:10 #175 14:08:11 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/175 -> Action 175 respond to our #2005 (on xfq) due 2025-06-26 14:09:05 xfq: I took a look at the thread. It seems the HTML parser white space parsing cannot be changed without security issues. 14:10:08 ... One thing we could do is to include a definition of ASCII white space speficially for HTML. 14:10:25 addison: I think you wrote such definitions already. 14:10:48 JcK has joined #i18n 14:10:49 xfq: We describe the vertical tab for some specifications. 14:10:56 addison: Historical reasons. 14:11:06 xfq: So maybe there is nothing we can do. 14:11:23 addison: If we wrote HTML today, we might do something different... 14:11:37 s/speficially/specifically 14:11:43 addison: Shoudl I respond? 14:11:48 #174 14:11:48 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/174 -> Action 174 add 'typeface style` to the glossary (on r12a) due 2025-06-19 14:12:06 agenda+ typeface style definition 14:12:12 #173 14:12:12 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/173 -> Action 173 ping zainab (on aphillips) due 2025-06-19 14:12:18 i/#174/xfq: Yes 14:12:25 #169 14:12:26 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/169 -> Action 169 reply to html 10843 and css 9832 (on aphillips) due 2025-05-08 14:12:33 #162 14:12:33 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/162 -> Action 162 poll I18N/CSS for new day/time (on aphillips) due 2025-03-25 14:12:43 #157 14:12:43 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/157 -> Action 157 write glossary proposal identifying options and next steps for those options (on aphillips) due 2025-02-20 14:12:59 #135 14:12:59 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/135 -> Action 135 follow up on XR issue 1393 about locale in session (on aphillips) due 2024-10-17 14:13:02 #127 14:13:03 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/127 -> Action 127 make a list of shared topics of interest between TG2 and W3C-I18N (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30 14:13:07 #33 14:13:08 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33 -> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips) 14:13:15 #7 14:13:16 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7 -> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023 14:13:25 #4 14:13:25 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4 -> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips) due 27 Jul 2023 14:13:36 zakim, take up agendum 3 14:13:36 agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:13:55 zakim, take up agendum 4 14:13:55 agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:14:03 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1 14:14:18 addison: No incoming requests, nothin in review. 14:14:36 zakim, take up agendum 5 14:14:36 agendum 5 -- Pending Issue Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:14:39 s/nothin/nothing 14:14:42 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending 14:15:05 i18n-activity#2013 14:15:06 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2013 -> Issue 2013 [css-text] `hanging-punctuation: last` should be "conditionally hang" (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker] [s:css-text] 14:15:22 addison: CSS issue on hanging punctuation ^^ 14:15:32 i18n-activity#2011 14:15:33 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2011 -> Issue 2011 Define optional normalization of full-width characters in (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker] [s:html] [spec-type-issue] [jlreq] [clreq] [i:interaction] 14:16:10 addison: Interesting thread ^^ on digits input in . 14:16:20 ... We talked a little about it last week. 14:16:24 agenda? 14:16:35 zakim, take up agendum 8 14:16:35 agendum 8 -- typeface style definition -- taken up [from addison] 14:16:51 #174 14:16:51 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/174 -> Action 174 add 'typeface style` to the glossary (on r12a) due 2025-06-19 14:17:20 addison: Defintion of typeface style. 14:17:37 ... Richards proposed text not in glossary-style language. 14:17:54 ... My rewrite may not work either. 14:18:23 r12a: Your wrote a "this" and I don't know what it refers to. 14:18:51 JcK: What is a "typeface style"? Different from a typeface? 14:19:02 r12a: The definition tries to explain it. 14:19:36 addison: It's a neologism that we are creating. 14:20:23 JcK: confusion with historical terms. 14:22:46 Typographers typically talk about classification, e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox-ATypI_classification 14:23:11 addison: The first sentence of the def doens't really say what a typeface style is. 14:24:37 zakim, take up agendum 6 14:24:37 agendum 6 -- Pull Requests -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:24:48 r12a: "... common to a number of fonts... styles... " I'll rework it 14:24:53 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/162 14:24:54 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/162 -> Pull Request 162 Modernize 'choosing character encodings' (by aphillips) [Agenda+] [normative] 14:24:58 https://deploy-preview-162--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#char_choosing 14:25:28 addison: My reworking of choosing character encodings ^^ 14:25:39 ... thumbs up from Anne van Kesteren. 14:26:03 .. John, you sent an email. 14:26:42 grappple >> grapple 14:26:57 https://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-glossary/#dfn-character-encoding 14:26:59 JcK: Old issue of chacter encoding and charset in Unicode. I have no problem, as long as the definition is clear. 14:27:22 ... Can be very confusing if you come to this with variuos historical views. 14:27:47 addison: I use character encoding as a shorthand and link the term to the definition. 14:28:02 ... I think in modern terms character encoding form is clear. 14:28:50 JcK: Less concerned about character encoding vs character encoding form. 14:29:35 addison: 4.7is about other, non-Unicode encoding forms. 14:30:01 JcK: No problem as long as it comnpletely clear. 14:30:24 ... But right now different encoding form in 4.6 and 4.7. 14:30:56 addison: The bottom set of mustard is old and maybe I can clean it up, improve the wording. 14:31:55 ... If you allow different character encodings, there should be a label, don't you agree? 14:32:06 JcK: I certainly agree. 14:33:22 ... Between Unicode and iso10646, you'll find encoding form used as character set. So conflict with that earlier use. 14:34:02 ... Also should put labels on HTTP/1.0 and HTTP/1.1 14:34:20 addison: But those are out of scope for W3C :-) 14:34:52 JcK: It seems you use the same term in two overlapping ways. One is only about Unicode. 14:35:40 xfq: The text improved since the porevious iteration 14:35:59 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/163 14:35:59 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/163 -> Pull Request 163 Mention layout mirroring for bidi (by xfq) 14:36:05 https://deploy-preview-163--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#typ_bidi 14:36:12 addison: Any objection to publishing it, after I made the improvemenbts? 14:36:16 No objections 14:37:07 > Specifications defining user interface layouts SHOULD support automatic mirroring for right-to-left languages, ensuring that spatial relationships, navigation patterns, and directional elements are appropriately reversed while preserving semantic meaning. 14:37:27 xfq: The PR is about automatic mirroring for rtl languages, if needed. 14:38:06 ... E.g., a switch button should be mirrored. 14:38:30 ... Another aspects is "logical properties", such as in CSS. 14:38:45 ... That also applies for vertical text. 14:39:06 ... We have a section in specdev about logical properties that is currently empty. 14:39:35 addison: This is a gap to fill in specdev. Thanks for starting! 14:40:06 ... I suspect we have to do some thinking, because a good description is complex. 14:40:18 ... Probably needs an illustration. 14:40:46 ... I pointed to an example from one of my talks, 14:41:08 ... in which "forward" means "left". 14:41:13 s/"logical properties"/"logical properties" exposed to authors/ 14:41:33 ... And we need to describe what spec auhtors need to do. 14:42:32 JcK: If I have arabic digits and rtl letters, and I want to slope the text, how do I do that? 14:43:05 xfq: Should provide the possibility to slope both left and right. 14:43:41 addison: We may need to reorder the sections to be clearer. 14:44:32 r12a: The first mustard about sloping doesn't belong in this section. 14:45:32 addison: Section 9 typographic support? 14:45:42 xfq: Or font management? 14:46:45 addison: As I said in my issue comment, I think it is not typographic support. More UI. Maybe section 10. 14:47:34 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/labels/t%3Atyp_font_management_x 14:48:08 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/labels/t%3Atyp_logical_x 14:48:16 r12a: When we have empty sections, it is a good idea to follow the link to the review comments, because there is quite a bit in there. 14:48:48 ... Specdev tries to distill the intelligence from people's reviews. 14:49:38 addison: So what should the scope of your work be? UI mirroring? 14:50:11 xfq: Yes this PR is for UI mirroring, as defined by a spec, not the author. 14:50:33 ... I'll rework this. 14:51:34 agenda? 14:51:40 zakim, take up agendum 7 14:51:40 agendum 7 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:51:56 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/434 14:51:56 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/434 -> Pull Request 434 Change RFC 2616 to RFC 9110 (by xfq) 14:52:49 xfq: HTTP Content-Language header: I updated the link to RFC 9111, which I believe is the latest. 14:53:18 ... we cannot link to a section of STD97, so I linked to the RFC. 14:53:32 addison: Is that true? 14:53:52 xfq: We can link to std97, but not to a section within it. 14:54:18 https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/std97 14:54:27 jck: [section numbers of RFCs] 14:55:06 xfq: Shall I merge this PR? 14:55:42 addison: Unless RFC9110 has been obsoleted already, which I think is not the case. 14:56:07 atsushi, feel free to take a look at https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/issues/685 when you have time 14:56:07 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/issues/685 -> Issue 685 [questions/qa-html-encoding-declarations] Japanese translation of character encoding (by xfq) 15:08:27 bigbluehat has joined #i18n 15:08:38 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/03-i18n-minutes.html addison 15:08:51 present+ Atsushi 15:09:00 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/03-i18n-minutes.html addison 15:09:07 present+ Richard 15:09:14 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/03-i18n-minutes.html addison 16:13:51 zakim, bye 16:13:51 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Fuqiao, Bert, JcK, Atsushi, Richard 16:13:51 Zakim has left #i18n 21:42:14 r12a has joined #i18n