W3C

– DRAFT –
ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force

03 June 2025

Attendees

Present
Adam_Page, howard-e, Matt_King
Regrets
-
Chair
-
Scribe
Adam_Page, Siri

Meeting minutes

Publication planning

Matt_King: we didn’t publish on May 29
… as planned, because not enough of the PRs had landed
… so we skipped it
… I’ve tentatively reset the date to June 17
… already merged 1 more PR
… so there are now at least 2
… and at least 1 or 2 more that are close enough
… so comes down to people’s availability
… does that work for you, @howard-e?

howard-e: yes, fine with me
… but I’m not available the following week

Matt_King: if you look at the milestone, there are 2 things merged, 2 things pending
… I do want to talk about PR #3249
… there’s a merge conflict

@howard-e I’ll take care of the merge

Matt_King: great, that’ll be #3

PR 3251

GitHub: w3c/aria-practices#3251

Matt: Thank you Adam for awesome updates

Example is really good, performance issue, expansion and collapse is not working

with JAWS

Documentation update is required for FAQ content

Adam will take care of it

The way the pointer/focus ring/hover effect that will let people know they can click anywhere in the card

Adam: With in card, there is visible button label, details, when user hover over tghe card , the details will get underline to indicate that what they say when they click a card

Matt: Also add why we use Aritical over group/region in A11y features

Article is used for rotor/quick nav navigate

Also tell why we don't use region in this case

Once Adam adds documentation, group will iterate on it

High contrast, if system colors is used

Adam: Built in HCM using some system colors

Used Jon's PR content

This example uses system colors instead of forced colors

Pull request 3272 - Change list semantics in Disclosure FAQ example

Matt: We have the disclosure FAQ example, where dt contains a button and dd contains the answer
… earlier we agreed to get away from <dl> semantics and decided to use a simple list instead
… Jon ended up using <ol>
… at least for me, JAWS presented it as if were unordered
… so somehow the numbers were suppressed
… maybe through CSS
… so my questions are
… why don’t the numbers appear?
… and are they invisible to everyone?
… and if so, then why not change to <ul>

Lola: I don’t see numbers
… it’s a toggle situation
… I’m trying to look at the CSS
… yes, we’re using SVG as the toggle icon
… and that’s taking place of the numbers
… I agree with you: we should use a <ul>

howard-e: I agree

Adam_Page: me too

Matt_King: let’s have Jon make that change and then get some more reviews
… we should look at code and design
… I’m looking from the AT point of view

Adam_Page: I’ll review

Treegrid example has <tr role="row"> which is not allowed per ARIA in HTML spec

w3c/aria-practices#1049

Github: w3c/aria-practices#1049

Matt_King: this issue is 6 years old
… this was originally done because of validator errors
… we had <tr> in tree grid with `role="row"` on them
… now we have a later version of the validator
… we need to confirm: do we still have `role="row"` in the code

Adam_Page: yes, we do

Matt_King: if we remove that, will the validator bugs be fixed?

howard-e: they show up as warning instead of errors
… they wouldn’t block our build

Matt_King: when the validator throws warnings, does it show as a failed test?

noward-e: ho

Matt_King: I think it would be excellent to remove the explicit role

Siri: is it doing anything wrong?

Matt_King: technically, no
… however, because it’s an APG example, it is suggesting that people do something they shouldn’t need to do
… it makes unnecessary work for people
… we don’t want to encourage ARIA overuse
… so it seems worth testing out a PR that removes this role

Adam_Page: I’ll take the issue and create a PR

Question about multi-thumb slider design

Github: w3c/aria-practices#3278

Matt_King: not sure if they’re asking for their own use, or suggesting that the APG be changed
… if they’re asking for themselves, no problem
… if they’re asking for the APG, we actually have rationale for choosing the triangle since they suggest two values in a multithumb slider and the range between them

Question about fieldset/legend and radio pattern

GitHub: w3c/aria-practices#3274

Issue 3274 - Question about fieldset/legend and radio pattern

Matt_King: it’s not clear whether they’re asking us to _use_ fieldset/legend
… our standard answer is that APG is here to demonstrate using ARIA roles
… and specifically the `radiogroup` role in this case
… but there may be a more solid reason to not use fieldset/legend, depending on the content model
… screen readers don’t differentiate between `group` and `radiogroup`, I think
… we do want to include native HTML examples in the APG, we just haven’t started doing it yet
… I thought we might talk about that in our About section, but it looks like we don’t
… that our first mission is to illustrate the use of ARIA
… but we do want to demonstrate semantic HTML
… in all of these examples, it’d be great to have a very simple native equivalent, where applicable
… one of the differences between an ARIA radio group and an HTML radio group, is the focus management
… in an HTML radio group, when you tab backward into the group, it focuses on the _last_ radio button
… so the native behavior is disorienting
… it’s unlike all other composite widgets

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 244 (Thu Feb 27 01:23:09 2025 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/ho/no/

Maybe present: Adam, Lola, Matt, noward-e, Siri

All speakers: Adam, Adam_Page, howard-e, Lola, Matt, Matt_King, noward-e, Siri

Active on IRC: Adam_Page, howard-e, Matt_King, Siri