Meeting minutes
This meeting
Nigel: Today: note publications, DAPT, IMSC 1.3, TPAC planning, and Charter review
Anything else?
Matt: User groups for DAPT, people making systems that use it
Republication of png-hdr-pq WG Note
Nigel: Note published at https://
Nigel: Any comments or questions?
(none)
Apply streamlined publication to all of Note track documents
Nigel: This has been done, for png-hdr-pq and dapt-reqs, but AFAICT not on TTML profile registry
… so it's in progress
DAPT
Transition DAPT requirements WG draft Note as formal Note
Nigel: dapt-reqs published as WG Note on 12th May at https://
Nigel: There are no open issues on dapt-reqs at the moment
Nigel: Actually, there are two PRs. One is for publishing via GitHub Action, which has been done
… The other one needs input
Add links to MAUR requirements w3c/dapt-reqs#23
Nigel: This PR needs a review. It addresses issue #5 that Cyril opened
DAPT User Group
Matt: Our workflow requires a post-production script, they come in as Word documents, but we'd like it as DAPT
… We'd upload them to Limecraft, align them and produce a basic subtitle caption file
… We'd add in any sound effects, etc.
… We want them to support DAPT, and they'd like to connect with others working with DAPT
Cyril: Can you clarify what changes Limecraft want in DAPT?
Matt: It's not so much that they want changes. It would be good to have a mechanism to have dialog to ensure that aren't lots of different variants
Cyril: Last time I explained that Netflix intends to release open source software to produce DAPT from TTAL scripts
… An option could be to use TTAL software to produce DAPT, would that help?
Matt: Yes, but for me it's about opening up the discussion beyond this WG
Cyril: I can see if we have contact with them
Nigel: There may be implementers who aren't W3C participants who want to compare notes. I can think of at least 3 options, 2 of those exist
… Existing are: the Audio Description Community Group, which could be expanded in scope, or create a new CG. Or if people don't want to come to W3C, it could be in scope for the CCSUBS group
… Thirdly, we could find a home for a DAPT user group. That might be preferable, so it's clear. There's an IMF user group, and DASH-IF
… They need funding to operate
… Any of those could work. I see the need to compare notes on interoperability
Matt: Yes, something beyond sharing the spec, which can raise questions that need addressing
Cyril: At minimum, a mailing list for exchanging bug reports, without fear of sending reports to the spec authors
… Publish guidelines, similar to what DASH-IF has done. A Community Group could be perfect for that
Nigel: The CG provides a mailing list. Could start there, and see if that works for people
… It might need a meeting structure, not frequent, every 3 months, but to show that other people are there.
… How to progress this? I can send messages out, but I wonder what's the most effective way
Matt: I'll be at the CCSUBS meeting in Berlin, could request an hour there?
Cyril: Creating a CG is easy. Could get that ready and create following CCSUBS
Nigel: If we create a new one we should close the existing CG to avoid confusion. Or repurpose the existing one. I don't know if the group can be renamed
Cyril: A timed text scripts CG. Having a CG named audio description might be misleading
Nigel: Yes
… Let's think about it, and see what we can set up. It's a good idea
Test suite
Nigel: I haven't seen any movement on the issues about tests. I haven't made PRs to add tests
… Ideally we have someone else look at my analysis to see if it makes sense
… I can create tests if it looks about right
Cyril: I'll try to do that tomorrow
Explicitly permit daptm:represents on tt, body, div, p and span w3c/dapt#294
Nigel: Andreas raised the issue, but he's not here today. If anyone wants to look, it's a minor issue about the data model
Nigel: Anything else on DAPT?
(nothing)
IMSC 1.3
Liaison response received from EBU
Member-only link to liaison response
Nigel: They asked for DAPT metadata to be allowed in IMSC documents. I don't think anything prevents that
… Do we need a call out to say something about compatibility with IMSC?
IMSC 1.2 Foreign Element and Attributes
Cyril: From IMSC perspective DAPT is a foreign namespace
Nigel: If you want to turn DAPT into captions, to what extend do you preserve existing metadata. A question about good practice
… By preserving translation information in the player, you can use that to drive spoken subtitles
… Data that's always been missing so far, but now we have a scheme for describing it
… DAPT data can tell you if the subtitle text was translated from a different language, so you can use that for spoken subtitles
Cyril: I don't follow
Nigel: If there's markup to show which subtitles are translations, the player, if it wants, can trigger text to speech on those specific subtitles, to get an audible translation
… I heard this in action in Holland, 10 years ago. They do it using broadcast subtitles, and special set top boxes. A Dutch news programme, in Dutch, cuts to someone speaking in English, and the translation was spoken by the STB. That needs the translation data present
Cyril: I see
Nigel: It would be useful to call out somewhere, whether in DAPT or another document
Cyril: Could be in an appendix
Nigel: Anything else on IMSC?
(nothing)
TPAC 2025 Planning
Gary: It's the same as previous years, ask how many meeting slots you want, and which groups to have joint meetings with or avoid overlaps with
… For us this year, it's more complicated as it's in Japan. If members aren't there in person we might not have quorum
Nigel: I don't know about my attendance right now. We have to fill this out in about a month
… We'll get a lot of Japanese attendees, would be useful to have their input
… I'd like to be able to discuss with people involved in ARIB. Going there in person might help us resolve the IMSC ARIB issue
… In terms of other work, the timing might be we can confirm transition of DAPT to Rec in person
… Could also have a CG meeting
… I'd hope we can also share progress with MEIG
Nigel: Also Media WG and MSE carrying captions.
Chris: Absolutely, both of those topics would be welcome,
… happy to organise joint meetings to support that work.
… In general, what I would suggest is request the timeslots now. It's easier
… to release unneeded timeslots than to add new ones that you do need, late in the process.
… Experience last year - MEIG had more agenda requests than I at first expected.
Gary: That makes sense, plan for it to happen, then cancel if it turns out nobody can come.
Nigel: In the past we've created an agenda page. We can do it in the TTWG GitHub, as a wiki or issue or discussion. I can transcribe what we've just said into that tomorrow
… Which days would we want to meet?
… There's often pressure to meet at the beginning or end of the week
Chris: I thought similar to last year - MEIG could have a few slots on Thursday,
… then Thursday for the Media WG, but it ends up being the event team that reconciles all the slots.
… The other thing to bear in mind is that this year, because there was so much interest
… in breakout sessions there are more slots during the week dedicated to breakout time,
… so the format for the Wednesday is a bit different and there are breakouts on the other days too.
… So there might be less time allocated for groups to fit their sessions in.
… I think between those groups it might be good to come up with an overall structure of the week,
… because there will be overlapping participation.
… The other thing I would suggest is if we want to coordinate joint time with the APA WG.
… We did a 3-way meeting with APA, MEIG and TTWG the past couple of years which was good
Gary: They were always interesting. Might be easier in November because I don't think it
… overlaps any other major events especially for likely attendees of our meetings.
Nigel: Could be MEIG Monday, TTWG Tuesday, Media WG Thurdsay, then joint with APA on Friday
Chris: Yes that's the kind of thing I was thinking of
Cyril: I'd prefer having all the timed text related meetings all at the beginning or end of the week, not spread out
… It's preferable to only come for just a few days rather than the whole week
… But I'll follow what the group decides
Nigel: Anything else on TPAC?
(nothing)
AOB - TTWG Charter Review
Nigel: The charter review closed on the 19th. There were no objections, some proposed changes, that Gary and I are happy with
… It looks like a formality that the group will be rechartered
Atsushi: We're asking reviewers about the proposed changes. We'll proceed with the rechartering after 1 week if there are no comments from reviewers
… So, to be announced next week
Meeting close
Nigel: Next meeting is 2025-06-05
… Thanks everyone [adjourns meeting]