– DRAFT –
MATF 16 April 2025

JJ summarising people who have taken up definitions

ack

Joe_Humbert do we need to vote on the draft proposals

<JJ> List of issues that are being drafted or are ready for drafting: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3Adrafting

1.4.3 Contrast (Minimum)

<pauljadam> placeholder text is text

<JJ> Thx rachaely - to filter issues on having assignees: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20%20has%3Aassignee

Tanya 2 q's 1. How shall we treat placeholder text, which can be treated as decorative - we reject placeholder text that doesn't meet contrast?

<pauljadam> yep designers don't like labels, which makes UIs more confusing

Tanya 2. When we are talking about color contrast, are we talking about text with no accessibility features on? We say that user settings should be respected

what if the platform does adaptive scaling - can we really fail dev's for not getting 200%? Should this be a note?

JJ this isn't about text resizing

rachaely do high contrast settings apply here?

<julianmka> System settings as sufficient techniques? w3c/matf#67

@JJ this does seem to be a separate issue

Joe_Humbert As per dynamic scaling, is there a way that testers can determine why something is not scaling? Like which unit is being used

Detlev to Tanya - We normally ignore placeholder contrast when the placeholder is redundant because there is a label. But if there is important information in the placeholer, then it needs to meet contrast. There is also a need for graphics contrast that can affect this scenario

pauljadam for placeholder, wcag does not specify "placeholder" - text is text. For contrast, some web sites allow users to increase contrast, but I think default contrast should meet WCAG.

JJ leaving the app can also be a burden on folks

pauljadam you could rely on reduce motion, but without a pause button people will think you are inaccessible

<quintinb> +1 pauljadam

respecting system settings should be below minimum

That highlight contrast...

<pauljadam> I forgot to say that the Xcode Accessibility Inspector can test for resizable text

ACTION: Define how to calculcate text size in points for Mobile Applications

pauljadam isn't that only certain versions, like 17+?

<pauljadam> don't think so

ah ty

ACTION: Determine whether high contrast mode is an acceptable way to pass 1.4.3

<pauljadam> You can't inspect the text size only you can run the Audit function

1.4.11 Non-text Contrast

<JJ> w3c/matf#49

<pauljadam> iOS Toggles have insufficient contrast ratio but their appearance is determined by the user agent and not modified by the author. You can add a custom .toggleStyle to achieve 3:1 contrast ratio but that is only required when the author modifies the design of the toggle.

I wonder how non-disabled folks would react if not-enabled components where just black text on blackgrounds...

is Flutter and React native a user agent or an author?

<JJ> User agent definition: w3c/matf#63

<JJ> pauljadam

pauljadam the ios toggle has insufficient contrast ratio - appearence is determined by user agent, but can be configured. If cross platform do their own thing, then they're on the hook for sufficient contrast

I wonder what the point of a disabled component is if it doesn't have to meet contrast requirements

<JJ> For frameworks like Flutter or React Native, could look purely at the colors, and not at technical implementation for 1.4.11

Joe_Humbert user agent: WCAG2ICT: any software that retrieves and represents documents for users

Not pages?

or views?

<Joe_Humbert> yup

<pauljadam> page is a document :)

<Joe_Humbert> https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict-22/#user-agent

Haha sorry just stirring

<Joe_Humbert> Document is defined as well https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict-22/#document

pauljadam another weird thing about toggles: off state is not sufficient, but on state does - is this a way to weasel out of this? because one state is passable?

<Detlev> I created an issue for redundant placeholder contrast requirement: w3c/wcag#4343

If there are some components that "don't matter" - what's the point of requiring anything? Maybe that's me just being synical

<pauljadam> I'm still surprised there is no definition of "inactive"

Tanya I think if you look at the intent of the SC is to make elements more detectable for people. I would not mind adding a note that all elements should comply with minimum contrast

By allowing low contrast for inactive elements, we're telling those who can't see it "you wouldn't get it, your understanding / perception doesn't matter"

<rachaely> does the rounding note also apply for text contrast or just non-text?

<pauljadam> on iOS when you enable increase contrast setting the toggle then has better contrast too. so we may not want to put a burden on developers that they have to fix all of apple's bad contrast choices

JJ maybe add a note to modify the appearance for accessibility, that authors should do it

<pauljadam> Or apple could fix their default contrast then no developers would have to worry about it 🤷‍♂️

ACTION: Determine potential note to cover best-practices for user agent determined appearance and inactive components

pauljadam maybe we should ask developers to file bug reports

ACTION: Note could also say something about "if you have the ability to change the appearace to reach minimum contrast, then do it"

<quintinb> +1 pauljadam

"Email your MP"

I may sound like a lazy engineer, but I'm not going to lie, I think the OS should do it

1.4.10 Reflow

<pauljadam> WCAG's Reflow success criterion requires no horizontal scrolling for vertically scrolling content at a width of 320 pixels or less.

<pauljadam> You can make you iPhone width 320 by turning on Larger Text Display Zoom setting.

<pauljadam> in my a11y Techniques app I have a Horizontal Scroll Views technique that detects your screen width and does not show horizontal scrolling if you are at 320 width

<JJ> w3c/matf#4

<JJ> w3c/matf#25 (comment)

@Detlev there is an interesting link to the orientation SC. Do we need to make sure that when you support landscape that you require all content being available?

It is considered best practice in Android, @Detlev \

I remember the Jetpack compose docs saying all info should be available, regardless of view rendering

pauljadam I have interpreted reflow for native for iPhone for larger text display setting. You can do the same thing for native apps

Thanks!

<JJ> Question: how to check screen size on Android/iOS, is it possible without using a (3rd party) website or app?