W3C

– DRAFT –
Invisible XML Community Group

01 April 2025

Attendees

Present
David, Fredrik, John, Nico, Steven
Regrets
Bethan, Norm
Chair
Steven
Scribe
Steven

Meeting minutes

/www.w3.org/2025/03/18-ixml-minutes.html///www.w3.org/2025/03/18-ixml-minutes.html

Accept the minutes of the previous meeting

[Agreed]

Review of open actions

[None]

Status reports

Steven: I'm writing a proposal for ixml modularisation for MarkupUK

A subtraction operator

See invisibleXML/ixml#249

Steven: I would prefer a topic title that includes the exception operator

Steven: So John, you think subtraction would cover more use-cases?

John: We need an efficient method of saying "Unless it's a keyword"
… many examples talk about subtraction in the tokenisation phase.
… it was comparitively simple to implement in Earley for me
… MIchael used to provide examples that it wasn't good for.
… there are other mechanisms to do it
… but they are ugly, using character by character.
… but it won't work for certain edge cases
… and possible not with other parsing algorithms.

Steven: The ! construct would allow things like regexp-style behaviour that people are calling for.

Fredrik: Both might be relevant
… I've been implementing the ! construct, difficult since I didn't implement the parser myself. ! is interesting because you can use ! at the end of a rule for instance.
… it seems like the two solve slightly different problems

[Fredrik demonstrates]

Steven: Why do you restrict it to literals?

Fredrik: Lookahead

Steven: I see a way of doing it with general nonterminals

Fredrik: What if the guard is longer than the thing it is guarding?

John: subtraction would work with nonterminals
… I have demonstrated that it can work and match not a substring, and it certainly works where the RHS is any finite sized structure
… it has problems with zero-lengths
… I compile the LHS and RHS of the accept operator into separate rules,
… and we are looking for the completion of those nontermianls

Fredrik: Can you put it at the end of a rule?

John: Yes

Fredrik: I don't think the binary except operator can be used at the end of a rule.

John: True.
… you might be able to construct the one from the other.
… if either LHS or RHS of the except operator is the null string, it's difficult
… the LHS it works OK; see the issue

Steven: Interesting. I see the next step as comparing the use cases.

Nico: I see tokenisation as a separate issue.
… I have hundreds of thousands of tokens.
… I plan to write a paper about it.
… ixml takes plain text and produces XML; that is asymmetric
… when you're dealing with XML as input, it becomes a whole new issue.

John: So you're looking at structure within structure
… XSLT may offer you help

[Explains the method]

John: You can have ixml grammars as leaves of XML documents.
… I'll write something about this in the next weeks.

Nico: I would like a summary.

Fredrik: I am experimenting with the ! operator

AOB

[None]

[Adjourn]

<Steven> s/Topic Accept the minutes of the previouhttps://www.w3.org/2025/03/18-ixml-minutes.html//

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 244 (Thu Feb 27 01:23:09 2025 UTC).

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All speakers: Fredrik, John, Nico, Steven

Active on IRC: Steven