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12:55:21 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/04/01-ixml-irc
12:55:30 <Steven> rrsagent, make logs public
13:47:33 <Steven> Meeting: Invisible XML Community Group
13:47:33 <Steven> Chair: Steven
13:47:33 <Steven> Scribe: Steven
13:47:51 <Steven> Regrets: Bethan, Norm?
13:48:15 <Steven> Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/03/18-ixml-minutes.html
13:48:38 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2025Mar/0045
13:48:44 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
13:48:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/01-ixml-minutes.html Steven
13:52:37 <john> john has joined #ixml
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14:00:36 <Steven> Topic: Accept the minutes of the previouhttps://www.w3.org/2025/03/18-ixml-minutes.html
14:01:01 <Steven> Topic: Accept the minutes of the previous meeting
14:01:01 <Steven> Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/03/18-ixml-minutes.html
14:01:15 <Steven> [Agreed]
14:01:40 <Steven> Topic: Review of open actions
14:02:00 <Steven> [None]
14:02:08 <Steven> Topic: Status reports
14:02:55 <Steven> Steven: I'm writing a proposal for ixml modularisation for MarkupUK
14:03:22 <Steven> Topic: A subtraction operator
14:03:22 <Steven> See https://github.com/invisibleXML/ixml/issues/249
14:03:48 <Steven> Steven: I would prefer a topic title that includes the exception operator
14:04:18 <Steven> Steven: So John, you think subtraction would cover more use-cases?
14:05:04 <Steven> John: We need an efficient method of saying "Unless it's a keyword"
14:05:33 <Steven> ... many examples talk about subtraction in the tokenisation phase.
14:05:53 <Steven> ... it was compartively simple to implement in Earley for me
14:06:08 <Steven> s/compartively/comparitively
14:06:35 <Steven> ... MIchael used to provide examples that it wasn't good for.
14:07:06 <Steven> ... there are other mechanisms to do it
14:07:39 <Steven> ... but they are ugly, using character by character.
14:07:55 <Steven> ... but it won't work for certain edge cases
14:08:09 <Steven> ... and possible not with other parsing algorithms.
14:09:37 <Steven> Steven: The ! construct would allow things like regexp-style behaviour that peoplle are claling for.
14:09:47 <Steven> Frederik: Both might be relevant
14:12:04 <Steven> ... I've been implementing the ! construct, difficult since I didn't implement the parser myself. ! is interesting because you can use ! at the end of a rule for instance.
14:12:39 <Steven> ... it seems like the two solve slightly different problems
14:20:24 <Steven> [Frederik demonstrates]
14:21:57 <Steven> Steven: Why do you restrict it to literals?
14:22:06 <Steven> Frederik: Lookahead
14:22:19 <Steven> Steven: I see a way of doing it with general nonterminals
14:22:48 <Steven> Fredrik: What if the guard is longer than the thing it is guarding?
14:23:19 <Steven> John: subtraction would work with nonterminals
14:26:00 <Steven> ... I have demonstrated that it can work and match not a substring, and it certainly works where the RHS is any finite sized structure
14:26:14 <Steven> ... it has problems with zero-lengtsh
14:27:23 <Steven> ... I compile the LHS and RHS of the accept operator into separate rules,
14:27:41 <Steven> .. and we are looking for the completion of those nontermianls
14:27:59 <Steven> Fredrik: Can you put it at the end of a rule?
14:28:03 <Steven> John: Yes
14:28:16 <Steven> s/Frederik/Fredrik/G
14:30:49 <Steven> Fredrik: I don't think the binary except operator can be used at the end of a rule.
14:31:09 <Steven> John: True.
14:31:20 <Steven> ... you might be able to construct the one from the other.
14:31:50 <Steven> ... if either LHS or RHS of the except operator is the null string, it's difficult
14:32:10 <Steven> ... the LHS it works OK; see the issue
14:33:10 <Steven> Steven: Interesting. I see the next step as comparing the use cases.
14:33:24 <Steven> Nico: I see tokenisation as a separate issue.
14:33:35 <Steven> ... I have hundrends of thousands of tokens.
14:33:41 <Steven> s/ends/eds/
14:33:53 <Steven> ... I plan to write a papre about it.
14:34:38 <Steven> ... ixml takes plain text and produces XML; that is asymmetric
14:35:04 <Steven> ... when you're dealing with XML as input, it becomes a whole new issue.
14:36:33 <Steven> John: So you're looking at structure within structure
14:36:41 <Steven> ... XSLT may offer you help
14:39:36 <Steven> [Explains the method]
14:42:21 <Steven> John: You can have ixml grammars as leaves of XML documents.
14:43:28 <Steven> ... I'll write something about this in the enxt weeks.
14:43:35 <Steven> Nico: I would like a summary.
14:44:20 <Steven> Frederik: I am experimenting with the ! operator
14:44:52 <Steven> Topic: AOB
14:44:55 <Steven> [None]
14:45:05 <Steven> [Adjourn]
14:45:20 <Steven> Present: Fredrik, Steven, Nico, David, John
14:45:30 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:45:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/01-ixml-minutes.html Steven
14:46:33 <Steven> s/Topic Accept the minutes of the previouhttps://www.w3.org/2025/03/18-ixml-minutes.html//
14:46:48 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:46:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/01-ixml-minutes.html Steven
14:47:45 <Steven> s/Topic: Accept the minutes of the previouhttps://www.w3.org/2025/03/18-ixml-minutes.html//
14:47:49 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:47:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/01-ixml-minutes.html Steven
14:48:18 <Steven> s/Norm?/Norm/
14:48:52 <Steven> s/peoplle/people
14:49:03 <Steven> s/claling/calling
14:50:03 <Steven> s/lengtsh/lengths
14:50:57 <Steven> s/papre/paper
14:51:22 <Steven> s/enxt/next
14:51:30 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:51:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/01-ixml-minutes.html Steven
15:43:07 <john> john has joined #ixml